More hate crime extremism....

[soistes]

Why don't they just agree to come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who commits violent unprovoked assault on someone else whatever category they are deemed to be in? Am I missing something, but what actually does pigeon-holing everyone in this manner achieve in practical terms?

This.
The police have plenty of powers to deal with violent assault on a person, irrespective of the motives for it. It's not really clear what extra is added by making it a hate crime, apart perhaps from giving a signal to goths or whoever that the police will take seriously an assault on them. But they should do that anyway.

 

[soistes]

Have you never met an emo?

Saw some in Australia once. Wouldn't have had the nerve to assault them, however. They're huge bloody birds.

 

[yxee]

Is not just who picks on who, it's WHY they pick on someone.

Right, but the complicated nature of a "motive" is not encapsulated by the binary characteristic of "was the victim an ethnic minority or not".

If I really hated horticulturalists, to the point that I wanted to punch one when I see one on the street, what's the difference between that and punching an emo? The motives are the same - irrational hate and anger - but the punishments are different because the the legal model has simplified a complex issue down to what is basically a flow diagram: is the victim an emo? Yes: hate crime; no: was the victim a horticulturalist? Yes: assault.

The motives for a crime cannot be decided using such a simple process. This is what judges are for, they look at the evidence and, if the defendant is found guilty, the sentence is based on the details of the crime. There is absolutely no need for these decisions to be made on the front line of policing.

 

[Bakero]

Right, but the complicated nature of a "motive" is not encapsulated by the binary characteristic of "was the victim an ethnic minority or not".

If I really hated horticulturalists, to the point that I wanted to punch one when I see one on the street, what's the difference between that and punching an emo? The motives are the same - irrational hate and anger - but the punishments are different because the the legal model has simplified a complex issue down to what is basically a flow diagram: is the victim an emo? Yes: hate crime; no: was the victim a horticulturalist? Yes: assault.

The motives for a crime cannot be decided using such a simple process. This is what judges are for, they look at the evidence and, if the defendant is found guilty, the sentence is based on the details of the crime. There is absolutely no need for these decisions to be made on the front line of policing.

I'm not sure that there's ever been a spate of attacks on horticulturalists. That's the difference here.

Manchester Police are obviously responding to a rise in assaults against emos, goths etc. If the police feel they need to handle these cases differently, I don't really see why people have an issue with this.

 

[LE19]

Right, but the complicated nature of a "motive" is not encapsulated by the binary characteristic of "was the victim an ethnic minority or not".

If I really hated horticulturalists, to the point that I wanted to punch one when I see one on the street, what's the difference between that and punching an emo? The motives are the same - irrational hate and anger - but the punishments are different because the the legal model has simplified a complex issue down to what is basically a flow diagram: is the victim an emo? Yes: hate crime; no: was the victim a horticulturalist? Yes: assault.

The motives for a crime cannot be decided using such a simple process. This is what judges are for, they look at the evidence and, if the defendant is found guilty, the sentence is based on the details of the crime. There is absolutely no need for these decisions to be made on the front line of policing.

Agree it's a very complicated issue, and I wouldn't be happy if an attack on me resulted in a shorter sentence than an attack on am Emo. On the other hand, an Emo-hater is perhaps more likely to repeat the offence on random Emos? (Until locked up, obviously.) At least by analysing and categorising these attacks, the front line of policing will be more aware of the issue, and hopefully be able to take action to prevent it, regardless of variations in sentencing.

Now, I think my boss might be a horticulturalist... Can I justify punching him?

 

[yxee]

Manchester Police are obviously responding to a rise in assaults against emos, goths etc. If the police feel they need to handle these cases differently, I don't really see why people have an issue with this.

Because positive discrimination is still discrimination, and if I'm assaulted on the street, I don't want my case file to be dumped at the bottom of the pile just because I don't listen to the right kind of music.