Monday Ethical Debate

[Scampi]

This story appeared on the Grauniad website (but don't let that put you off). So do you agree that this is rape?



http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/25/saber-kushour-rape-deception-charge

 

[strings]

So the salent facts, seem to be these:

- Man meets Woman, they have sex.
- Woman (who is Jewish) later finds out Man was an Arab and claims she would never have had sex with him had she known.
- Man gets jailed for 'rape by deception'.

Could you imagine if the same laws applied in Britain? How many blokes make up fake careers to lure a girl into bed on a Saturday night (firefighter instead of milkman, for example)? In the same vein, how many women pretend to be stewardesses or something sexier than a filing assistant to pull blokes...

 

[beorhthelm]

no. not even worthy of debate.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

NO!

 

[Tricky Dicky]

So, she had sex willingly, therefore not rape. Simple. End of. If she was too stupid and/or gullible to believe him, that's something else, but rape it is definltely not.

 

[jakarta]

Wouldn't it have been rather obvious to her that he wasn't Jewish as soon as he dropped his trousers?

 

[strings]

Wouldn't it have been rather obvious to her that he wasn't Jewish as soon as he dropped his trousers?

Clearly she isn't into foreplay!

 

[User removed 4]

Wouldn't it have been rather obvious to her that he wasn't Jewish as soon as he dropped his trousers?

Pretty sure muslims are circumcised as well, anyway what a ridiculous decision.

 

[Scampi]

Pretty sure muslims are circumcised as well, anyway what a ridiculous decision.

Totally agree with you there Bushy. The facts as represented in the article reflect really poorly on the woman. She's willing to have sex with someone she meets outside a shop, but cries rape because he's not the same religion.

Wondering though at what point deception becomes grounds for a rape accusation?

Also raises questions of the institional racism of the Israeli justice system

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Him rapist? No

Her racist? Clearly.

How odd.

 

[KneeOn]

Clearly its rape. I mean if the girl consents, its rape.

What hte f*** kind of decision is this? He's not done anything. "Oh if i knew you were israili i'd have never f***ed you".

Could you imagine if a girl in england said "If i knew you were an annoying f*** i'd have never f***ed you" or the firefighter-milkman mentioned earlier? It'd be a farce, and it is a farce.

 

[Danny-Boy]

Totally agree with you there Bushy. The facts as represented in the article reflect really poorly on the woman. She's willing to have sex with someone she meets outside a shop, but cries rape because he's not the same religion.

Wondering though at what point deception becomes grounds for a rape accusation?

Also raises questions of the institional racism of the Israeli justice system

Makes you wonder if a woman could complain of rape if a bloke told her he was gay and she thought she was "redeeming" him?

Has been known, quite a few comedy sketches about it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Also raises questions of the institional racism of the Israeli justice system

i wouldnt have thought there is much question around that...

 

[sydney]

i have nothing to say about that apart from it is TOTALLY f***ing LUDICROUS...

 

[Gwylan]

So the salent facts, seem to be these:

- Man meets Woman, they have sex.
- Woman (who is Jewish) later finds out Man was an Arab and claims she would never have had sex with him had she known.
- Man gets jailed for 'rape by deception'.

Could you imagine if the same laws applied in Britain? How many blokes make up fake careers to lure a girl into bed on a Saturday night (firefighter instead of milkman, for example)? In the same vein, how many women pretend to be stewardesses or something sexier than a filing assistant to pull blokes...

But if you read the article, he didn't claim to be Jewish, she assumed he was because he spoke good Hebrew. I'm pleased to see that there's plenty of outrage about the case in Israel too -one would hope that he'd get off on appeal, but it's an unedifying episode.

I'm not sure about the "Any person in my shoes would have done the same thing," claim though. Most married blokes don't go off shagging some woman they've met 5 minutes earlier.

 

[strings]

Good point Gwylan - the second paragraph of my post was meant to be an afterthough - I didn't mean to insinuate that he intentionally decieved her, more I wondered the consequenses of such a stupid law being applied in Britain.

For what it is worth. I think the whole case is a joke. The woman clearly is looking for someone else to blame for her own yo-yo knickers. In turn it also shows the institutional racism in the Israeli system.

 

[Dandyman]

Wouldn't it have been rather obvious to her that he wasn't Jewish as soon as he dropped his trousers?

Jews and Muslims both obey Leviticus, it's only backsliding Christians that don't.

 

[jakarta]

Jews and Muslims both obey Leviticus, it's only backsliding Christians that don't.

I stand corrected

 

[Gwylan]

Good point Gwylan - the second paragraph of my post was meant to be an afterthough - I didn't mean to insinuate that he intentionally decieved her, more I wondered the consequenses of such a stupid law being applied in Britain.

For what it is worth. I think the whole case is a joke. The woman clearly is looking for someone else to blame for her own yo-yo knickers. In turn it also shows the institutional racism in the Israeli system.

Quite.

One thing that's not been made clear in any of the articles that I've seen is how she found out he wasn't Jewish. Someone must have told her, as he said that he didn't - just how does that come about?

 

[Tooting Gull]

Could you imagine if the same laws applied in Britain? How many blokes make up fake careers to lure a girl into bed on a Saturday night (firefighter instead of milkman, for example)? In the same vein, how many women pretend to be stewardesses or something sexier than a filing assistant to pull blokes...

Totally agree that if this was brought in over here, half the male population would be in prison. Does it instantly become rape if they 'forget' to mention another girlfriend, wife and three kids....

But to be fair I think the 'sexing-up' of careers etc is a predominantly desperate male thing. Let's face it, if she was a really fit filing assistant, you wouldn't give a shit about her career.