miners may they rest in peace

[looney]

Their wont be job losses in fox hunting cos they wont be stopped. Thats just a political gambit along with the putting dogs down arguement.

90% of both sides of the foxhunting arguement are flakey imo.

 

[looney]

Oh and Simster there a big difference between jobs lost because of economic reform/change and years of failure to diversify local economies and jobs lost because of political spite.

 

[Dover]

I started work, as YTS a panel beater/sprayer during the stike, travelling to Folkestone every day from Dover. Some nine miles and often by bicycle.

I was for the stirke and the Miners, and I still beleive the closuer of the pits, was the beginning of the end for Southeast Kent. Since then there has been no real investment in the area, to the piont that Dover, Deal and Thanet are dead on their feet. The only place that has some bouyancy about it is Canterbury, and that is due to it's tourist trade.

We now import coal, from countries that will let children mine the coal for a pittance, where the mining areas, all over this country have never had real replacement of the investment that they have lost.

Many thanks Thatcher. The area I grew up in has changed for ever. The ones that could, have moved on, those less fortunate, have had to stay.

 

[Simster]

Oh and Simster there a big difference between jobs lost because of economic reform/change and years of failure to diversify local economies and jobs lost because of political spite.

There's also a big difference between 161,000 and 1,000...

 

[LEWES CLIFF]

Huge difference between wanton murderers who would have us all bowing as they ride past if they could and good honest working class men protecting thier livlihoods and thier sons future.I collected outside supermarkets was involved to a small degree with Red wedge and as a teenager i remember looking at the news thinking this woman will get her comeuppance,low and behold she gets booted out of power,her husband dies leaving her a sad old widow and her son is accused of being the moneygrabbing scum that his mother adored.The destruction of communities and the break-up in families it caused should mean that she will be remembered forever as evil.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I have a little sympathy with the miners themselves as they were conned by their union. That said all the Unions should stay out of politics ( that includes giving up their bulk membership of the Labour party ) and just protect their workers.

Overall though all the coal mines should be closed - fossel fuels are expensive and dangerous to source and we shouldn't be using them as burning them wrecks the bloody planet !!!!

 

[Wozza]

That Nottingham police force was HARDCORE.

After they defeated the miners many of them wanted to "push on into Moscow".

 

[ditchy]

The crazy thing is the call centre jobs at Doxford International (and there are hundreds of them) are only 5 to 10 miles from these communities ... but with no buses and most families witout a car, no retraining opportunities etc the chance to cut out a life is negligible

you make it sound as though there is no buses or public transport at all up there ..that is not the case

 

[On the Left Wing]

you make it sound as though there is no buses or public transport at all up there ..that is not the case

I know you have family in the same area Ditchy - as I said things ARE improving, but the public transport system has only just (in the past 3 years) started to run regular services to the old pit villages - the problem was a lack of any proper bus provision at times where people could (if trained and skilled) commute to Doxford, Sunderland or even Durham, where there are plenty of jobs ... it was a dichotomy which is thankfully being addressed.
But when you have two generations of a family who have NEVER worked (or maybe only on training schemes) the skills gap is enormous - Houghton le Spring is in touch because it is on the A690, but when you get beyond Hetton le Hole and on to places like Easington the reality is still one of long-term unemployment and low expectation from many - I recently had to research and write a 12,000 word council document on the Sunderland East Coalfield Regeneration Area and the socio-econonic facts are frightening

 

[ditchy]

So 10yrs earlier when we had 3day weeks and power cuts becuase the miners took on ted heath and won ,it was all ok ... 10yrs later they lost basically using the same tactics..

big diff at the time was the stocks of coal ... in the 70's we had about 3-5 days coal left whereas in the 80's we had 3-4 months . so the miners were never going to win .also it was summer too in the 80,s whereas autumn aproaching winter in the 70,s

 

[ditchy]

I know you have family in the same area Ditchy - as I said things ARE improving, but the public transport system has only just (in the past 3 years) started to run regular services to the old pit villages - the problem was a lack of any proper bus provision at times where people could (if trained and skilled) commute to Doxford, Sunderland or even Durham, where there are plenty of jobs ... it was a dichotomy which is thankfully being addressed.
But when you have two generations of a family who have NEVER worked (or maybe only on training schemes) the skills gap is enormous - Houghton le Spring is in touch because it is on the A690, but when you get beyond Hetton le Hole and on to places like Easington the reality is still one of long-term unemployment and low expectation from many - I recently had to research and write a 12,000 word council document on the Sunderland East Coalfield Regeneration Area and the socio-econonic facts are frightening

fair point otlw

 

[enigma]

The miners/union played the game and they lost. They got greedy. And even if the miners weren't directly to blame, the people that represented them were. They should take a look in the mirror rather than blaming everyone else for their problems. I couldn't give a toss, its their doing. Its just they're too short sighted to see it.

 

[London Irish]

The miners/union played the game and they lost. They got greedy. And even if the miners weren't directly to blame, the people that represented them were. They should take a look in the mirror rather than blaming everyone else for their problems. I couldn't give a toss, its their doing. Its just they're too short sighted to see it.

They got greedy? You define greed as not wanting to see their jobs taken away and communities destroyed? Not wanting to see their kids left with no future except the local boom industry of drug-dealing and petty crime? Yeah, greedy bastards.

Yes, you don't give a toss. Bravo.

 

[London Calling]

They got greedy? You define greed as not wanting to see their jobs taken away and communities destroyed? Not wanting to see their kids left with no future except the local boom industry of drug-dealing and petty crime? Yeah, greedy bastards.

Yes, you don't give a toss. Bravo.

A few weeks ago Radio 5 did a piece on Worksop, an ex-mining town, well an ex industrial town with no jobs.

Two years ago a half of all 16-25 year olds were herion addicts .

Things are better now. But that is just one repercussion of an attack on a community, that did not care for the consequences.

LC

 

[dougdeep]

The miners were shafted. Everyone said that Scargill was exagerating over the pit closures. In the end history shows that his figures were a vast underestimation. The biggest losers in the end were you and me.

 

[enigma]

Perhaps not the miners directly like I said, but the people they elected to represent them. I have sympathy for those who voted against the strike but those who voted for the strike didn't see the bigger picture. People were sick of Power Cuts etc and something had to be done to combat the unions. I believe that Unions have a right to exist and defend their members interests but they went too far.They're the ones to blame, and the people that blame Thatcher overlook the faults of Scargill etc. And I don't even like Thatcher.Yes its sad, but they thought they could milk the system, and screwed up.There's no reason why we should have been held to ransom any longer.

My father is Italian and worked for the UN regarding textiles, and he said he hated dealing with English factories as they were so inefficient and over-unionised, and as a result lost business. We're a lot better off now with the IR system we have. I know sentimental people on the left try to romanticise the struggle, but we are better off now.

I have little sympathy for them, I'm far more concerned by the regeneration of the poor bits of London and immigrants that were just lumped into the concrete hellholes that I see when I go to East London.

 

[London Irish]

I'm far more concerned by the regeneration of the poor bits of London and immigrants that were just lumped into the concrete hellholes that I see when I go to East London.

Yeah, we can all see the milk of human kindness bleeding out of you.

Bravo feeling sorry for the immigrants, but woe betide them if they organise and try and improve their lot collectively, then you'll be ready enough to believe all that "they went too far" bullshit pumped out by the tabloids and the Murdoch press.

 

[SussexHoop]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the stick used to beat the NUM was the question of legality. Had the NUM held a secret ballot on the strike and won the vote, the strike would have been legal. Scargill refused, the strike was declared illegal, the NUMs assets were sequestrated and the fight was on.

Thatcher needed to tame the power of the unions. Despite what those of you on the Left may think, the unions were too powerful in the 70s, particularly under the last Labour government. Scargill couldn't resist the challenge, saw himself as the man to take Thatcher on and bring down her government ... and he lost. Sad thing is he wasn't the one to pay the price.

One of those 'what ifs' ... what if he'd held the ballot and won?

 

[enigma]

You are truly one of the most patronising people I have ever "spoken" with. I hear you're a journalist, who do you claim to write for?

As I said, I agree that Unions have a right to organise and protect workers interests but they went too far and were shafting the country.I take it you enjoyed the Power Cuts? I'm sorry but I wouldn't be prepared to take that.

And don't try and talk down to me about "kindness" I have done numerous charity/community service projects . Don't judge me, cause you don't know me. I sympathise with the current situation, and I would say that the areas were starved of investment, but they were short sighted about the pits.

The miners chose the Unions to represent them and they went too far with the agenda. Look at Scargills attitude, he clearly had no intention of trying to reach agreement unless they got exactly what they want.

 

[London Irish]

One of those 'what ifs' ... what if he'd held the ballot and won?

As you say, they'd have just used another stick to beat the miners with and broke the strike another way.