[Politics] May 2021 local elections and Hartlepool by-election

[Raleigh Chopper]

Ok, I'm looking for excuses but they picked totally the wrong candidate. The people of Hartlepool were asked to vote for someone who called them a bunch of ignorant, racist troglodytes. Fair enough he probably didn't use those exact words (in public), but we all know what middle class Remainers/Rejoiners think of working class Brexit voters.

Yes we do, they are ignorant, racist thickos.
As has been proved again.
Have you been to Hartlepool?
Jesus, its full of them, that is why 70% of them voted to leave without having absolutely no idea of what it was about.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Local elections tomorrow are you bothered ?

No, only until you stop opposing it.

And that’s it in a nutshell.

Who is opposing it? The Labour Party’s last position was hold the Government to account to get a deal done by the end of last year.

Some people can move on, some people can’t. Labour had assumed that their voters in Hartlepool could move on. Massive mistake.

 

[zefarelly]

Labour are a shower of shit on the same level as the Tories, they haven't got a clue how to win anything, whereas the tories will do anything to win, and enjoy the power for thier own gain. . . mugging the vast majority off in the process is a masterstroke. It's basically a competition and Labour are spineless with no competitiveness.

Adur @ East Worthing is a classic example in the second last election, Sophie Cook ran Tim Laughton damned close , which was a shock . . . in a really really safe blue seat with one of the worst examples of a true blue tory . .why ? not because she is a great politician, but because she was a bit different, had some character and actually engaged, got people off their arse who wouldn't normally bother. . . .

next time round, rather than build on that with a win at any cost attitude, Labour selected a died in the wool old school Labourite, no doubt a better politician but devoid of all the qualities needed to generate a good turn out and overturn a careerist chameleon with an horific voting history. The general population of Adur/Lancing will never vote for a lefty Scottish woman, a massive fail.

most annoying is only 70% of people bothered at all, so 36% of people wanted the Tory cockwomble representing us.

 

[Hamilton]

Labour need to come up with an achievable vision for the country and some serious, specific policies.

Smirking weasel John Ashworth being wheeled out every day, forever only talking about sleaze, after abandoning CV19 failures with the vaccines success, is simply is not good enough. Dyson enquiring about the tax status of his overseas staff being brought back to help the UK to urgently create a ventilator, was NOT a corruption smoking gun. Perspective.

Starmer needs to look back to see how John Smith, Mandelson, Blair and Brown won over swathes of England in the 90’s.

He needs to look forward creating that vision and big policies.

Allowing bitchy class warriors in his party to control the agenda, is the road to political oblivion. It will only yield the x percent of chattering classes, participants of left wing echo chambers, who were non-Tories already.

Hoping that Starmer wakes up from this malaise, take control, brings in great minds.

100% this.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes we do, they are ignorant, racist thickos.
As has been proved again.
Have you been to Hartlepool?
Jesus, its full of them, that is why 70% of them voted to leave without having absolutely no idea of what it was about.

You and Nicko are wonderful recruiters for the Tory party. Keep going

 

[nicko31]

This is very valid. The Labour Party somehow assumed these people would be voting on current issues such as the Government’s handling of the pandemic. Sadly, folk who voted the Tory in are the 25% of people who voted Brexit Party last time. I suspect they’ll still be voting for Brexit until their dying days.

Hartlepool was already theirs in 2019 due to the Brexit party it not really a big story.

If Sturgeon get a majority tomorrow, then the foundations of Johnson's true legacy will be set

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And that’s it in a nutshell.

Who is opposing it? The Labour Party’s last position was hold the Government to account to get a deal done by the end of last year.

Some people can move on, some people can’t. Labour had assumed that their voters in Hartlepool could move on. Massive mistake.

Nope, they can’t be trusted. Labour MPs spent a crucial year using procedure to thwart Brexit. Many posters on here articulated the view that they were entitled to follow their consciences and ignore their electorate. That was correct, they were entitled to do so. The thing is though there are long term consequences to that stance. You will have to live with it.

 

[portslade seagull]

The red wall loses another block to Labour incompetence

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Labour need to run on a "Doing Brexit Better" slogan and policy suite.

And possibly bring in "The King of the North" to lead them.

So all is not lost for them if the right decisions are made. A wake up call.

 

[zefarelly]

I'm not a Labour supporter (or a Tory) but this feels like a bit of an existential crisis for Labour, with them losing the council in Sunderland for the first time since 1973 too. As others smarter than me have said, the problem for Labour is deepened because the evidence of the moral, economic and political failures of the Government and individuals in it are plain for everyone to see - lies have been exposed that in any other Government at any other point in history would have led to resignations and sackings for gross misconduct, but a large number of people literally don't care even when that costs lives. Which makes the problem for Labour as much about needing people to care again as it does about them needing to have a compelling message for voters, because if people don't care about the lies and lack of integrity then whatever message you put out will just hit a wall of denial and lies and propaganda you can never overcome. Unless Labour can find a way to out-b*stard the Tories and play them at their own game, somehow without making it a race to the bottom, they are never going to come back: when the PM can literally lie over and over again with impunity to slam your message, and people choose to not care but instead believe the message they are giving out despite easily available evidence he's lying, how do you fight that?

I think a lot of people are so used to being treated like shit they've got used to it. Huge amounts of people have become disenfranchised and don't vote, this suits the tories well. They're wallowing in it as they have virtually no opposition at present. Its not in good peoples nature to bew a total **** so the Tories will continue to be top ***** for the forseable. It all harks back to Thatcher convincing the working classes they were middle classed whilst sneakily making them all worse off.

I did a few inflation based calculations recently, as an experienced engineer I'm considerably worse off, and have been consistently in the last 12 years, in reality, than at any time from the mid 90's up to 2008. I'm not alone. we're being subliminally shafted.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Nope, they can’t be trusted. Labour MPs spent a crucial year using procedure to thwart Brexit. Many posters on here articulated the view that they were entitled to follow their consciences and ignore their electorate. That was correct, they were entitled to do so. The thing is though there are long term consequences to that stance. You will have to live with it.

Wise words [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Views like this will keep Labour in opposition permanently.

11 years in government & winning Hartlepool with a thumping majority. Labour losing council seats up & down the country. Not healthy for the country to have fractious opposition.

The current labour leadership will struggle to wipe the image created by the previous leadership and its noisy activists. It saddens me to see that 'no compromise with the electorate' is still alive and well in the minds of those sneering at the likes of the people of Hartlepool. And I say that as someone who spent most of the Thatcher era sneering at tories.

Boris, having saved us all from Covid by inventing not one but two world beating vaccines, is teflon presently. Events.....

 

[gazingdown]

I would say that blaming “brexit” is a red herring. Most people accept that people voted leave/remain and can respect that decision.

Labour (and others) did their utmost to try and revert the outcome of the referendum, THAT is why they have lost votes and respect. You are NEVER going to win votes by holding your potential voters with contempt because they don’t think the same way as you.

That and the swing leftwards (that Starmer hasn’t really addressed/reversed) hasn’t helped, plus there is no indication as to what Starmer is all about, it’s almost like he’s just a stand-in/deputy leader waiting for the next person with proper idea about how to move forward.

For a credible opposition, there’s probably does need to be a new “social democratic” party (for working AND middle classes) that does away with all the labour far lefties, encapsulates previously lib-dem voters etc. Key to that will be to completely accept the Brexit vote and be VERY clear about that, move on etc. And that’s JUST to have a credible opposition, no way near in position to win a general election.

There are a lot of people who say they’d never vote Conservative because of Thatcher (even though that was 40 years ago), in the same mould there will be a LOT who will never vote for anyone who tried to thwart the brexit vote for the same reason.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Labour are a shower of shit on the same level as the Tories, they haven't got a clue how to win anything, whereas the tories will do anything to win, and enjoy the power for thier own gain. . . mugging the vast majority off in the process is a masterstroke. It's basically a competition and Labour are spineless with no competitiveness.

Adur @ East Worthing is a classic example in the second last election, Sophie Cook ran Tim Laughton damned close , which was a shock . . . in a really really safe blue seat with one of the worst examples of a true blue tory . .why ? not because she is a great politician, but because she was a bit different, had some character and actually engaged, got people off their arse who wouldn't normally bother. . . .

next time round, rather than build on that with a win at any cost attitude, Labour selected a died in the wool old school Labourite, no doubt a better politician but devoid of all the qualities needed to generate a good turn out and overturn a careerist chameleon with an horific voting history. The general population of Adur/Lancing will never vote for a lefty Scottish woman, a massive fail.

most annoying is only 70% of people bothered.

On the basis that Lewes elected Norman Baker four times in a row by large margins, I'd guess the major issue was that she just wasn't very good, rather than her being Scottish. Unless there's some specific anti-scotch vibe in that part of the county that I'm not aware of.

For that matter, I'm pretty sure a candidate's actual views and opinions are barely relevant. Given most people won't be paying attention, the skill is in cutting through and getting people to notice you (and as you suggest, actually get off their arse and vote).

If people are paying enough attention to even notice you're a boggle-eyed Sussex nationalist fish fetishist, you've already won half the battle just getting them that far.

 

[Weststander]

Hartlepool was already theirs in 2019 due to the Brexit party it not really a big story.

If Sturgeon get a majority tomorrow, then the foundations of Johnson's true legacy will be set

Spitefully yearning for a country without Scotland, to ‘punish’ English political foes, will ultimately cost anyone left of Tory for the rest of our days.

A Commons without the 59 Scottish seats, will almost certainly never see a centre left or left wing government (or even a so called Progressive Alliance), or give a majority conducive to some form of integration with the EU.

 

[zefarelly]

Spitefully yearning for a country without Scotland, to ‘punish’ English political foes, will ultimately cost anyone left of Tory for the rest of our days.

A Commons without the 59 Scottish seats, will almost certainly never see a centre left or left wing government (or even a so called Progressive Alliance), or give a majority conducive to some form of integration with the EU.

It's quite likely this will happen . . . . which starts making Australia look like a viable option.

Personally I'd defect to France/Italy, but family and all that . . .

 

[Weststander]

The current labour leadership will struggle to wipe the image created by the previous leadership and its noisy activists. It saddens me to see that 'no compromise with the electorate' is still alive and well in the minds of those sneering at the likes of the people of Hartlepool. And I say that as someone who spend most of the Thatcher era sneering at tories.

Boris, having saved us all from Covid by inventing not one but twp world beating vaccines, is teflon presently. Events.....

Arrogance/snobbery from many UK politicians and from people who bizarrely feel they’re superior to others, is where this all began.

 

[Weststander]

It's quite likely this will happen . . . . which starts making Australia look like a viable option.

Personally I'd defect to France/Italy, but family and all that . . .

I can see the attraction .

 

[Bozza]

Hartlepool was already theirs in 2019 due to the Brexit party it not really a big story.

Not a big story?

15,464 people in Hartlepool voted for Labour in 2019. Just 8,589 voted for them yesterday. Regardless of the Brexit Party -> Tory switch, Labour have lost a significant number of votes they previously had, and they threw a lot at the constituency in recent weeks to do all they could to get the Labour vote out.

It's why shadow cabinet members on the radio this morning, and impartial observers such as Sir John Curtice are very much treating it like a big story this morning.

 

[nicko31]

Spitefully yearning for a country without Scotland, to ‘punish’ English political foes, will ultimately cost anyone left of Tory for the rest of our days.

A Commons without the 59 Scottish seats, will almost certainly never see a centre left or left wing government (or even a so called Progressive Alliance), or give a majority conducive to some form of integration with the EU.

I'm not yearning for this at all but the Tories have created the environment for it.

They embarked on a divisive style of governance without really considering the consequences of their action. Anyway, that's for another conservation...