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[Football] Mason Holgate.



Commander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 28, 2004
12,887
London
All those defending racism because the victim attempted to maim someone in a football match need to take a look at themselves.
Can you point to a single post on this thread that has done that? It's quite the accusation you've made there.
 






cjd

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2006
6,102
La Rochelle
Racism is the lowest form of human nature
Is it...???

Lower than murder, or sadism, or genocide, or paedophilia etc etc ?

I think racism is awful, but not the lowest form of human nature. We are capable of so much more than that........ unfortunately.
 


Seaview Seagull

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Mar 1, 2021
495
Bullshit do we. He deliberately tried to injure one of our players. I don't see how him getting racist abuse from overseas has anything to do with us. Had it come from our actual fanbase, then that would be a different story, but it didn't.

He won't be getting any 'support' from me, whatever that means.
You cannot possibly know whether or not it came from our fan base. We have many fans all over the world thanks to our many foreign players including Mitoma. If we want to stamp out racism in our sport we all need to condem it irrespective of any surrounding events.
 


'Humans' are notoriously racist" would be.

It would also be true.

I think what @NorthstandRacoon was trying to say, was that there are large parts of Asia that are nowhere near as multi-cultural as the UK, and where racism towards black people is more prevalent than it is here. I would find it difficult to argue with that, personally.

But let's not miss an opportunity to cry RACIST! at somebody who was actually trying to condemn racism, and used his words clumsily eh? BURN HIM! BAN HIM!

Thank you! Couldn’t put it better myself, I have got used to (FINALLY) the pitch fork mentality on here from the usual. In no way was I saying racism is acceptable, it is disgraceful.

I am just speaking from experience and knowledge that I know, hence it being MY opinion, and I would imagine if you delve deeper, a common opinion.

Same for Australia, they are notoriously right wing and in some areas, racist. Doesn’t mean ALL are, but they have a bit of a rep, generally, of being so.

Holgate is right to highlight it, absolutely a disgrace, over a bloody game, but he is still a cock and deserves a LONG LONG ban for thar.
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Is it...???

Lower than murder, or sadism, or genocide, or paedophilia etc etc ?

I think racism is awful, but not the lowest form of human nature. We are capable of so much more than that........ unfortunately.
Racism is often the cause of those things, especially genocide.
 


The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
24,473
West is BEST
Racism is the lowest form of human nature and our club and fanbase need to support Holgate.

A side effect of this is that now Holgate can deflect away from what should be a 6 game ban IMO. So well done to the braindead racist keyboard warrior.


This ^^
Was trying to find a way to write this without sounding like I don’t care about racism. You have done it perfectly here.
 


Commander

Well-known member
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Apr 28, 2004
12,887
London
You cannot possibly know whether or not it came from our fan base. We have many fans all over the world thanks to our many foreign players including Mitoma. If we want to stamp out racism in our sport we all need to condem it irrespective of any surrounding events.
By 'our fanbase' I'm talking about people in this country, and to be honest probably 95% in Sussex and the surrounding area, who go to games. If someone in the Middle East or somewhere who has picked Brighton as their team decides to hand out some racist abuse to a Sheffield Utd player, then I'm sorry but that has absolutely nothing to do with me. In the same way as if I did that to someone on some random NFL team I'd decided to 'support', it would have nothing to do with the people who actually go and watch said team in the US.

When you say "we all need to condemn it", what do you mean? That every single one of us must publicly release a statement condemning someone in another country for sending a message calling someone a n*****r?

Can I just go on record now and say that I obviously 'condemn' anything like this for all future similar situations, or do I have to do it for each individual event?
 




Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
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Aug 24, 2020
5,278
This ^^
Was trying to find a way to write this without sounding like I don’t care about racism. You have done it perfectly here.
Quite. The narrative and discussion is now the racism, and not the foul play. That's a real shame, as players need to be protected from Holgate.
 


hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,279
Chandlers Ford
By 'our fanbase' I'm talking about people in this country, and to be honest probably 95% in Sussex and the surrounding area, who go to games. If someone in the Middle East or somewhere who has picked Brighton as their team decides to hand out some racist abuse to a Sheffield Utd player, then I'm sorry but that has absolutely nothing to do with me. In the same way as if I did that to someone on some random NFL team I'd decided to 'support', it would have nothing to do with the people who actually go and watch said team in the US.

When you say "we all need to condemn it", what do you mean? That every single one of us must publicly release a statement condemning someone in another country for sending a message calling someone a n*****r?

Can I just go on record now and say that I obviously 'condemn' anything like this for all future similar situations, or do I have to do it for each individual event?
Indeed. We bear no more responsibility for the social media interactions of a racist youth in Kyoto or Hanoi, than we did when homophobic Alireza Jahanbaksh or Percy Tau fans got offended by the club promoting Pride or Rainbow Laces.
 


Commander

Well-known member
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Apr 28, 2004
12,887
London
Is it...???

Lower than murder, or sadism, or genocide, or paedophilia etc etc ?

I think racism is awful, but not the lowest form of human nature. We are capable of so much more than that........ unfortunately.
No, of course it isn't. But it's the one thing that people love to call out the most, to show the world how un-racist they are.

For some reason they don't need to do it anywhere near as much for murder, sadism, genocide or paedophilia.

Interesting that nobody has denied that racism is human nature though, which it absolutely is. It's a deep-rooted survival instinct in my opinion, and for the vast majority of our evolution it made evolutionary sense to fear other groups who were different to your own. It's only really the last tiny speck of time in human history that it no longer does, and some societies are still 50 years ahead of others in this development. Hence why things like this happen when something like the Premier League is shown to a global audience.

I find it quite odd why so many people still get so surprised by something like this happening in a country a long way away with a completely different culture and set of values- those people don't think like you do! In fact, they'd probably be utterly appalled at some of the things you are OK with, being a Brighton fan. Remember all the Iranians on social media when he had Jahanbakhsh? They weren't too impressed when the club started Tweeting about Pride. They are just as sure of their viewpoint and opinions as we are.
 






drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,048
Burgess Hill
I thought my comment was quite clear.

But you seem to be contradicting yourself. Elsewhere, you say that racism is an unacceptable standalone issue, which I agree with, but here you are asking me 'what do you think is worse, the tackle or the racism?'. By comparing them, you are conflating them. To repeat, they are two separate things. They cannot be compared.
No I'm not conflating them. My view is the tackle is bad but not in the same league as racism. You were suggesting Sheffield were conflating the two and I was trying to work out how you arrived at that? The tackle happened, he got sent off and has a 3 match ban. Wilder accepted it was a red card. Subsequently they have reported that Holgate has received racist abuse and have drawn attention to it as they should have done. Referencing the racism isn't changing one thing about the tackle or the punishment he received for it. So I don't understand why you think them raising the issue of the racism changes anyone's view of the tackle.
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,048
Burgess Hill
Racism is the lowest form of human nature and our club and fanbase need to support Holgate.

A side effect of this is that now Holgate can deflect away from what should be a 6 game ban IMO. So well done to the braindead racist keyboard warrior.
Where do the rules allow for a 6 game ban? It's violent conduct and an automatic 3 match ban. Are you expecting there to be a special hearing?
 




Eric the meek

Fiveways Wilf
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Aug 24, 2020
5,278
No I'm not conflating them. My view is the tackle is bad but not in the same league as racism. You were suggesting Sheffield were conflating the two and I was trying to work out how you arrived at that? The tackle happened, he got sent off and has a 3 match ban. Wilder accepted it was a red card. Subsequently they have reported that Holgate has received racist abuse and have drawn attention to it as they should have done. Referencing the racism isn't changing one thing about the tackle or the punishment he received for it. So I don't understand why you think them raising the issue of the racism changes anyone's view of the tackle.
It's because everyone is now talking about the racism, and not the tackle !

See posts 57, 67, and 69.
 






Milano

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2012
3,346
Sussex but not by the sea
Where do the rules allow for a 6 game ban? It's violent conduct and an automatic 3 match ban. Are you expecting there to be a special hearing?
Yes I was rather hoping for that, and it can be done, e.g. Suarez, hence why the racism thing was an unwelcome sideshow. The conversation should have been on Holgate being a thug and not the colour of this skin.
 




drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,048
Burgess Hill
I have no doubt that Holgate, Sheffield United and Chris Wilder agree with you.
You clearly don't. Do you think they should have sat on the info about the racism until the debate about the tackle had run it's course?
Yes I was rather hoping for that, and it can be done, e.g. Suarez, hence why the racism thing was an unwelcome sideshow. The conversation should have been on Holgate being a thug and not the colour of this skin.
It's a horrendous tackle but it's hardly like the Suarez bite.
 
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Acker79

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Nov 15, 2008
31,854
Brighton
It amazes me people have this belief about “winning the ball”….it’s irrelevant and has absolutely nothing to do with the laws regarding fouls.

Unfortunately all sorts of old tosh is reinforced by the wing men on Sky sports. These be ex-players who don't know the rules of the game.

Some are convinced that if you touch the ball milliseconds before going through the opponent and delivering a season-ending injury, that's all fine and dandy.

They also have the mind-reading skills of Dynamo with their ability to judge what the players intentions were. A great deal of this is based on prior knowledge of the offender being 'not that sort of player'.

When a player lands his foot down on the foot or ankle of the opponent after the ball has gone, this is reckless and dangerous play deserving one of two cards, based on the perceived level of recklessness and danger. f*** off with your "no intent".
I think officials can muddy the water, too. Some of them, rather than waving away claims will instead point to the ball, and VAR appears to look at replays frame by frame looking to see if there is contact with the ball (or if there is contact with an opponent as if that alone is the defining factor).
 


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