Martin Samuel/ daily mail

[Rugrat]

I work in the"real" world, In my contract I am in breach if I talk with prospective employers without notifying my current employer first, would have thought that was standard with most employment contracts

Really? I've had some pretty senior jobs in FS and haven't come across it.

It is highly doubtful that a contract can restrict you moving to a competitor as that is clearly restraint of trade.

Agree. Businesses will put it into contracts and compromises but it's unenforcable in my experience

 

[Bakero]

You don't read Private Eye then? Whilst 'quality' is obviously subjective, I think a regular read of their summary of the goings-on at the dailies shows just how hypocritical, sensationalist and muck-raking all of them are. On its day, the Guardian can be just as bad as the Mail.

And I stand by my point that the editorial slant on the front of the paper is no guide to how good the back pages are. Case in point is Martin Samuels, the subject of this thread. The Guardianistas on here, by and large, think that what he writes must be utter tripe because its the Mail. I bet they didn't have that opinion when he wrote for the Times. Has Samuels dumbed down with his switch to the Mail? Of course not - it's just the usual crowd trotting out the usual ill-informed rubbish because it makes them look good to their fellow travellers.

Yep, I do read Private Eye- I wasn't holding the Graun up as a beacon of journalistic standards.

I wouldn't pay money for a the Daily Mail but I'd certainly read the sports section if I found a copy. Their quick crossword's not bad either. I'd even read the 'news' section (as long as no one was looking, of course).

 

[Mo Gosfield]

And ..... If Gus refused to sit down and talk about retained players, contracts etc for the coming season because he did know he was not going to be here because the club had already made it clear that they wanted shot of him?

IF.....



It's all speculation. I doubt if we will ever find out.

We may never find out the exact details but I think a lot of us have come to the conclusion ( rightly or wrongly ) that Gus was playing a very dangerous and ultimately unacceptable game.
His supreme self-confidence that he is destined for better things may have clouded his judgement in his dealings with the players. The cardinal sin in football is ' tapping up ' We all know it goes on, a lot of it undiscovered. Has Gus been too indiscreet with certain players? " I am likely to be moving on so it might be worth waiting a bit before agreeing a new contract to see what else could be on offer " If that sort of thing has gone on, then he has crossed the line. If it was going on before and between the play-off semi-final ( as has been rumoured and alleged ) then that is unforgiveable. Putting future interests before present needs.
All speculation but the fact is that three men are now out of work ( and before anyone pulls me up re Charlie...he is dead in the water....he will get paid off...and he will have to reflect on unswerving loyalty to Gus ) with future prospects uncertain.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

We may never find out the exact details but I think a lot of us have come to the conclusion ( rightly or wrongly ) that Gus was playing a very dangerous and ultimately unacceptable game.
His supreme self-confidence that he is destined for better things may have clouded his judgement in his dealings with the players. The cardinal sin in football is ' tapping up ' We all know it goes on, a lot of it undiscovered. Has Gus been too indiscreet with certain players? " I am likely to be moving on so it might be worth waiting a bit before agreeing a new contract to see what else could be on offer " If that sort of thing has gone on, then he has crossed the line. If it was going on before and between the play-off semi-final ( as has been rumoured and alleged ) then that is unforgiveable. Putting future interests before present needs.
All speculation but the fact is that three men are now out of work ( and before anyone pulls me up re Charlie...he is dead in the water....he will get paid off...and he will have to reflect on unswerving loyalty to Gus ) with future prospects uncertain.

Clearly your opinion, but something went on between the 2 playoff legs for sure, and what you say is very plausible.

 

[ROSM]

We may never find out the exact details but I think a lot of us have come to the conclusion ( rightly or wrongly ) that Gus was playing a very dangerous and ultimately unacceptable game.
His supreme self-confidence that he is destined for better things may have clouded his judgement in his dealings with the players. The cardinal sin in football is ' tapping up ' We all know it goes on, a lot of it undiscovered. Has Gus been too indiscreet with certain players? " I am likely to be moving on so it might be worth waiting a bit before agreeing a new contract to see what else could be on offer " If that sort of thing has gone on, then he has crossed the line. If it was going on before and between the play-off semi-final ( as has been rumoured and alleged ) then that is unforgiveable. Putting future interests before present needs.
All speculation but the fact is that three men are now out of work ( and before anyone pulls me up re Charlie...he is dead in the water....he will get paid off...and he will have to reflect on unswerving loyalty to Gus ) with future prospects uncertain.

Re Gus and 'tapping up'. That matches comments attributed to alleged club sources very early on in the suspension. They allegedly backtracked on it a couple of weeks ago. As I have said before, the club is leaking now more than It ever did. Trouble is, having said it, you can't in say it and so once it's out then if it's retracted, it's too late.

I would suspect it would be very difficulty prove that through a disciplinary. You would need the player and or his agent or witnesses to prove it. And given the he didn't deal with he retained list, surely that would have been the best way to have tapped up. In private, one to one etc.

The Oatway thing, I don't believe being loyal to gus is actually the issue here.

 

[Marshy]

its all about gaining permission to talk to other clubs first in my opinion, Gus has been whoring himself for jobs for 2 years.

But there is a correct way of doing it.

 

[Easy 10]

Re Gus and 'tapping up'. That matches comments attributed to alleged club sources very early on in the suspension. They allegedly backtracked on it a couple of weeks ago. As I have said before, the club is leaking now more than It ever did. Trouble is, having said it, you can't in say it and so once it's out then if it's retracted, it's too late.

I would suspect it would be very difficulty prove that through a disciplinary. You would need the player and or his agent or witnesses to prove it. And given the he didn't deal with he retained list, surely that would have been the best way to have tapped up. In private, one to one etc.

The Oatway thing, I don't believe being loyal to gus is actually the issue here.

Plausible, but if thats what had allegedly gone on, is it likely a player would hold off signing a new contract at the Albion pending Gus's next job situation ? It doesn't appear he has or had anything lined up, so I can't see a player stalling on a deal here when all Gus could say is "hold on for now, l'm not sure where I'll be next season (dreams of Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa), but I'll take you with me..." - and then he ends up going to, I dunno, Burnley.

 

[yxee]

Typical daily mail really. Its not really as straight forward as that as contracts are involved. If you sign a contract you don't have a RIGHT to choose a split without recompense. And using a divorce analogy is pretty lame as how many divorces are sorted by just giving the ring back.

How many managerial exits are sorted via a disciplinary hearing?

 

[ROSM]

Plausible, but if thats what had allegedly gone on, is it likely a player would hold off signing a new contract at the Albion pending Gus's next job situation ? It doesn't appear he has or had anything lined up, so I can't see a player stalling on a deal here when all Gus could say is "hold on for now, l'm not sure where I'll be next season (dreams of Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa), but I'll take you with me..." - and then he ends up going to, I dunno, Burnley.

I agree with you. I suppose what I'm saying is that it certainly seemed to be the early line spinning out of the club but one which lost traction over the last few weeks. It certainly would be a gamble.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

[The Oatway thing, I don't believe being loyal to gus is actually the issue here.[/QUOTE]

No, you could be right. At the moment there is no room left at the inn. A clear out is taking place and Charlie is a casualty of that. Garcia is bringing in a complete team.
A lot of fans ( me included ) considered Charlie to be BHA through and through, rather than Gus Poyet through and through. If the latter is more the case ( and I don't know for sure ) then I just hope that things work out for him. He has been a loyal servant of the club and his best chance of future success is in England. If Gus and Tanno took a job in Spain, I'm not sure it would be a natural and comfortable fit for Charlie.

 

[joeinbrighton]

I'm no fan of the Mail and would never buy it in physical copy. However, Martin Samuel is by far and away the best writer in the Mail and I always make an effort to read his column on the Mail website every week. He has also recently started doing a debate section on the Mail website which is quite amusing and he has quite a good way of putting down the idiots that send in their comments. His pieces are always well researched and he is good at coming at things from a completely different angle to other writers and he is well connected, he will speak to quite a range of people involved in the game on subjects that he writes about. I don't always agree with him, but I'd say he is the best football writer on the national papers right now in the way he presents his argument coherently and with good humour.

 

[KingstonSeagull]

Nail on the head...

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

I'm no fan of the Mail and would never buy it in physical copy. However, Martin Samuel is by far and away the best writer in the Mail and I always make an effort to read his column on the Mail website every week. He has also recently started doing a debate section on the Mail website which is quite amusing and he has quite a good way of putting down the idiots that send in their comments. His pieces are always well researched and he is good at coming at things from a completely different angle to other writers and he is well connected, he will speak to quite a range of people involved in the game on subjects that he writes about. I don't always agree with him, but I'd say he is the best football writer on the national papers right now in the way he presents his argument coherently and with good humour.

Samuel is an excellent writer, and unusually wide-ranging in the material he draws upon. He's also a decent bloke for one of the "grand dukes" (as some of the chief writers like to style themselves, I kid you not - Tooting Gull and others will back me up here). But the Mail are paying him such a colossal amount that they're speading him too thin in my opinion, if it's possible with a man of his girth.

 

[Easy 10]

Samuel is an excellent writer, and unusually wide-ranging in the material he draws upon. He's also a decent bloke for one of the "grand dukes" (as some of the chief writers like to style themselves, I kid you not - Tooting Gull and others will back me up here). But the Mail are paying him such a colossal amount that they're speading him too thin in my opinion, if it's possible with a man of his girth.

I've always enjoyed his columns and followed his scribings at The Times online (until they went subscription, the miserly tools).

He's certainly prolific at the Mail. A column in the sports section on Monday and Wednesday, the debate on Thursday (or is it Friday ?) plus they seem to be squeezing some general non-sports opinion articles out of him as well.

He'll be doing the horoscopes in there next, at this rate.

 

[Acker79]

I'm certainly a fan of his, but I wonder how many currently praising him would agree with his other comments on gus...

Gus Poyet, Suarez’s compatriot and manager of Brighton and Hove Albion, has attempted to debate why English football abhors it, yet often indulges a vicious tackle that could shatter bones, but few are ready for nuance just yet. They want Suarez brought to book and the FA are puppy-dog eager to oblige.​

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...-FA-hide-FIFA-rules-Martin-Samuel-column.html

 

[B.W.]

Please read what i said again. I wasn't criticising the club, stop looking for things that aren't there with your over the top pro-club agenda. All i said was the mail was oversimplifying and making light of the situation and being disingenious with their article. I was criticising the article or is that not allowed as it agrees with the club?

You keep pushing your pro-Gus agenda. I'll stick with my pro-CLUB one. OK? I support the CLUB, not Gus. NOT a crime on a BRIGHTON ( NOT Gus) message board. If you don't like it, tough.

 

[B.W.]

yes however is looking for another job a breach of contract? i don't know about football but in the "real" world it isn't

The fact that Gus constantly 'sold' himself to other clubs in his public pronouncements just ignored then?

 

[The Large One]

You keep pushing your pro-Gus agenda. I'll stick with my pro-CLUB one. OK? I support the CLUB, not Gus. NOT a crime on a BRIGHTON ( NOT Gus) message board. If you don't like it, tough.

Was it not possible to believe in both agendas - especially when there was an enormous amount of overlap?

 

[B.W.]

Hello b w . Snide digs back again I see? You didn't apologise the last time you got caught doing this. a bit of backtracking and subject changing. Oh well.

Just read what Martin Samuel said, he isn't saying anything that I and many others hadn't already said in as much as Gus going touting around and making daft comments is enough to want shot of him. But saying you want to better yourself isn't exactly a breach of contract. Saying stupid things may be.

There is a standard index to measure the positive and negative effects of a story and a media teams handling of it. It works on size of story, prominence, readership etc. the spat with the LMA and poor handling of the dismissal initial statement and follow up, gave the club a significant deficit. Despite some well placed and well written comments ( samuel's being one of them) and some very good recovery by he club ( the bloom interview was good, the barber email less so) they still have some catching up to do.

Just because they're getting it right now, it doesn't mean I and others aren't allowed to say they got it wrong initially.

Firstly, an apology. Sorry.

Secondly, I agree with most of your quoted post, since it is, IMHO, balanced. E.g. I fully agree that Tony's interview was great, and far better than PB's email, although that was pretty good.

Thirdly, I just don't see the whole episode as a 'PR disaster' for the club. This is my opinion, and I'm sticking with it. As far as I can tell, almost all of our fans are back onside, and I think most were never 'offside' anyway; just a huge over-reaction on NSC, as is usually the case, fuelled in part by sensible posters like yourself backing-up the PR disaster theory.

Well, back to supporting the club.

 

[B.W.]

I think you need some help with your alphabet and acronyms but don't worry they'll get to that next year at school

'Hilarious'