portslade seagull
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Mark Duggan "Lawfully Killed" According to Jurors
- Thread starter HawkTheSeagull
- Start date
This
drew
Drew
Nice to compare the very regrettable death of De Menezes with that of Duggan, a man suspected of involvement in murder, whose gangland uncle was murdered and as someone else aluded to, whose best friends are banged up for murder and attempted murder and, of course, a man who, moments before being shot had an illegal firearm. As for Stanley, he was a convicted armed robber and the police were responding to a report he had a gun in a bag. Regrettable but not on the scale of De Menezes.
Where did that mysterious gun come from, and do you know more about this than the jury?
Away from the normal world you live in, paying taxes, being considerate to others and not breaking the law, there is section of society including Duggan who selfishly thieve others hard-earned property, peddle drugs, avoid contributing to society in any positive way, and have no qualms about maiming or killing anyone who gets in their way. The Police have the unenviable job of dealing with this scum, and they have the support of most law abiding folk.
Nibble
New member
- Jan 3, 2007
- 19,238
Bang on.
You like looking at sharks ? Ok. I suggest a Bala then. Very small, easy to keep.
Seagull over Canaryland
Well-known member
I hate the thought of punters carrying guns around for criminal motives or even just to glorify their standing among their peers, with the risk that eventually they may be tempted into using the gun
I am not a hand wringing liberal or delicate wall flower. I've seen enough harsh reality over the years to know there are punters out there willing to cause mayhem without giving a thought about the consequences. Meanwhile the Police have a very difficult job while rightly having to remain accountable. However I am uneasy that the outcome of the Duggan case showed he was not actually holding a gun when he was shot but was still lawfully killed by the Police. I can see how inevitable it is there will always remain a question over the verdict from some, especially within his own community.
I feel most law abiding punters would have a similar view to Weststander. Unfortunately at some point in his life Duggan lost the perspective that most have and crossed the line between reasonable behaviour and the sort of conduct i.e. carrying a gun that made it likely he was going to walk into some form of confrontation with the Police which would probably have only one outcome. He has to take most responsibility for the outcome. If he didn't have a reputation for carrying guns, it would not have happened.
I am mindful that there are loads of people in my rural part of the world who openly carry shotguns - but this is for country sports and they aren't trying to be bad boy gangsters. It's all about the attitude of the owners. I don't necessarily agree with them blasting the bird population just for fun but at least they are not being a danger to society and aren't getting challenged by armed Police.
However if you choose to carry guns around in an urban environment, acquire and develop a reputation for being a hard man, while openly glorifying drugs and violence it seems likely you are not carrying the gun for a spot of wildfowling. You are danger to yourself and others and have to accept you are walking a tightrope, and cannot moan about it when challenged by Police who don't know if are about to do a Raul Moat and have a split seconds to defend themselves and the public.
Nice to compare the very regrettable death of De Menezes with that of Duggan, a man suspected of involvement in murder, whose gangland uncle was murdered and as someone else aluded to, whose best friends are banged up for murder and attempted murder and, of course, a man who, moments before being shot had an illegal firearm. As for Stanley, he was a convicted armed robber and the police were responding to a report he had a gun in a bag. Regrettable but not on the scale of De Menezes.
My link is the misinformation given out by the police and not the characters of these unfortunates after they have been killed. The actions of the police and then the follow up not anything else. Maybe the families of Hillsborough should have just let go. I mean they were drunken, thieving scousers weren't they ?
I even have sympathy for the copper who killed Duggan.
Footsoldier
Banned
- May 26, 2013
- 2,904
This is how his two best friends murdered.
His family and supporters continue to insist Mark Duggan was a ‘peaceful’ family man who abhorred violence.
But this photograph suggests his links with the criminal underworld were far deeper than first thought.
Staring menacingly into the camera, the gangster poses with his arms around two dangerous criminals who are each serving long sentences for murder and attempted murder. As one police source said: ‘He lived by the gun.’
Below - Gangsters, Mark Duggan middle with Junior Cameron, left, and Darrell Albert, who are serving life for murder and attempted murder.
View attachment 50093
And during the four-month inquest into his death, a torrent of evidence revealed the 29-year-old was one of the most violent gangsters in Europe – and linked to ten shootings and two murders.
He was a senior member of North London’s notorious Tottenham ManDem gang, which traded in violence, intimidation and drugs.
In the eight years before his death, Duggan was repeatedly arrested over a raft of serious crimes, including murder, attempted murder and a range of firearms offences.
Duggan was repeatedly arrested over a raft of serious crimes, including murder, attempted murder and a range of firearms.
Despite this, his mother Pamela, 55, maintains he was a ‘lovely young boy’ who tried to keep peace.
Last night she refused to accept the jury’s verdict, claiming he was a peacemaker, was not in a gang and was no danger to the public.
It is a picture put forward by Duggan’s family and supporters ever since England burned during days of widespread disorder in the summer of 2011.
Back then, few knew of his association with some of the most feared criminals in Europe.
To Duggan’s right in the picture is Junior Cameron, a career criminal serving a life sentence for shooting a man after a minor prang between their cars.
Cameron pulled a semi-automatic pistol on Gary Guthrie in Streatham, South London, and shot him in the back as he tried to escape. The 39-year-old died in hospital.
Cameron committed the murder in October 2007 – six months after being freed early from prison. The man to Duggan’s left is Darrell Albert, who was in the same car as Cameron that night.
During the confrontation he shot Mr Guthrie’s friend Rowan Williams with a Baikal 9mm pistol – now the weapon of choice for gangsters.
Mr Williams, 37, took a bullet in the neck but it was removed by surgeons and he survived.
As for Duggan, he was arrested on suspicion of murder in October 2003 after a body was found next to a ditch in Tottenham.
Gavin Smith, 28, had been abducted by a gang and then knifed in the back 17 times. He died from multiple stab wounds that pierced his lungs. Duggan was released without charge.
Three years later, he was arrested for the attempted murder of Surkhan Hussein, a Turkish mechanic who lost a kidney after being shot.
The gangster was said to have shot a reveller in a crowded nightclub in Christmas 2010, and fired shots in a car park outside a club in February the following year. Again, he avoided court.
Jurors heard there were a number of ‘assaults, shootings and murders’ after TMD reignited a historical feud with the London Fields Gang.
TMD had a history of robbing rival drug dealers and turning up at nightclubs with guns.
But the wall of silence on the Broadwater Farm Estate in Tottenham, where Duggan lived, meant many murders and shootings remain unsolved. Last night one senior Met detective said ‘Duggan was a constant feature of briefings about the most dangerous gang members for months before his death.
‘There were regular intelligence reports of him having a gun, moving guns and the latest beefs he had with his rivals and supposed friends.
His family and supporters continue to insist Mark Duggan was a ‘peaceful’ family man who abhorred violence.
But this photograph suggests his links with the criminal underworld were far deeper than first thought.
Staring menacingly into the camera, the gangster poses with his arms around two dangerous criminals who are each serving long sentences for murder and attempted murder. As one police source said: ‘He lived by the gun.’
Below - Gangsters, Mark Duggan middle with Junior Cameron, left, and Darrell Albert, who are serving life for murder and attempted murder.
View attachment 50093
And during the four-month inquest into his death, a torrent of evidence revealed the 29-year-old was one of the most violent gangsters in Europe – and linked to ten shootings and two murders.
He was a senior member of North London’s notorious Tottenham ManDem gang, which traded in violence, intimidation and drugs.
In the eight years before his death, Duggan was repeatedly arrested over a raft of serious crimes, including murder, attempted murder and a range of firearms offences.
Duggan was repeatedly arrested over a raft of serious crimes, including murder, attempted murder and a range of firearms.
Despite this, his mother Pamela, 55, maintains he was a ‘lovely young boy’ who tried to keep peace.
Last night she refused to accept the jury’s verdict, claiming he was a peacemaker, was not in a gang and was no danger to the public.
It is a picture put forward by Duggan’s family and supporters ever since England burned during days of widespread disorder in the summer of 2011.
Back then, few knew of his association with some of the most feared criminals in Europe.
To Duggan’s right in the picture is Junior Cameron, a career criminal serving a life sentence for shooting a man after a minor prang between their cars.
Cameron pulled a semi-automatic pistol on Gary Guthrie in Streatham, South London, and shot him in the back as he tried to escape. The 39-year-old died in hospital.
Cameron committed the murder in October 2007 – six months after being freed early from prison. The man to Duggan’s left is Darrell Albert, who was in the same car as Cameron that night.
During the confrontation he shot Mr Guthrie’s friend Rowan Williams with a Baikal 9mm pistol – now the weapon of choice for gangsters.
Mr Williams, 37, took a bullet in the neck but it was removed by surgeons and he survived.
As for Duggan, he was arrested on suspicion of murder in October 2003 after a body was found next to a ditch in Tottenham.
Gavin Smith, 28, had been abducted by a gang and then knifed in the back 17 times. He died from multiple stab wounds that pierced his lungs. Duggan was released without charge.
Three years later, he was arrested for the attempted murder of Surkhan Hussein, a Turkish mechanic who lost a kidney after being shot.
The gangster was said to have shot a reveller in a crowded nightclub in Christmas 2010, and fired shots in a car park outside a club in February the following year. Again, he avoided court.
Jurors heard there were a number of ‘assaults, shootings and murders’ after TMD reignited a historical feud with the London Fields Gang.
TMD had a history of robbing rival drug dealers and turning up at nightclubs with guns.
But the wall of silence on the Broadwater Farm Estate in Tottenham, where Duggan lived, meant many murders and shootings remain unsolved. Last night one senior Met detective said ‘Duggan was a constant feature of briefings about the most dangerous gang members for months before his death.
‘There were regular intelligence reports of him having a gun, moving guns and the latest beefs he had with his rivals and supposed friends.
nicko31
Well-known member
I think we can say that justice was well and truely done yesterday, some people just can't handle the truth.
User removed 4
New member
Complete and utter patronising bollox, plenty of people grow up in rough areas and don't end up like duggan.
Quite right, and plenty of kids from good areas become complete scumbags. Anyway I'm not defending Duggan as a person, don't you get it ?
drew
Drew
In the case do De Menezes there was a lot of confusion as to what info came from Police and what came from witnesses. For example, it was said that he vaulted the ticket barrier but was subsequently shown that he used his ticket and the confusion may have been down to a witness stating that and not realising the person vaulting the barrier was in fact an officer.
Your comments would suggest otherwise, eg when was his trial, as if to suggest he was wholly innocent.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,222
Or an innocent person got hurt or their business ruined in the following riots.
User removed 4
New member
I get it completely , I didn't say you defended duggan, you attempted to use the area where he grew up as an excuse for his lifestyle, I commented that this was patronising bollox, clear enough for you ?
Nibble
New member
- Jan 3, 2007
- 19,238
To quote William Munny
"You just shot an unarmed man"
"Well he shoulda armed himself".
If you throw your weapon away when being pursued by armed men you are pretty dumb. I suppose he thought everyone had to play fair in life except him. He won't make that mistake again.
"You just shot an unarmed man"
"Well he shoulda armed himself".
If you throw your weapon away when being pursued by armed men you are pretty dumb. I suppose he thought everyone had to play fair in life except him. He won't make that mistake again.
Arrivederci Duggan. Harringey is a slightly better place without you.
Ok move on from the incident where they put 7 bullets in his head and read up on the aftermath...... Death of Jean Charles de Menezes...it's on Wiki. These are the issues, not the actual incident.
TottonSeagull
Well-known member
Totally agree, Duggan was a gun wielding lowlife and his death probably saved other lives! You reap what you sow!
- Jul 10, 2003
- 26,187
The death of Jean Charles de Menezes was an issue where you should put your efforts to make sure it doesn't happen again.
This was someone reaping what they sow, nothing to get upset about. It is proven to be a lawful killing which will and should happen again in the same circumstances.