[News] Lorry attack in Nice

[beorhthelm]

Not sure that a particular area was mentioned on SKY. From memory it was 'parts of London'

right, so there's no real evidence of this. i have no illusion that some estates of London, or any other major cities, are not friendly to police and they have procedures for attending those areas. but i'm also certain there are no Muslim ghettos either.

 

[Tony Towner's Fridge]

I was there two years ago, a truly wonderful celebration of France and it's proud heritage. Absolutely shocked because we are going on Sunday for 8 days and it would have been last Sunday for 8 days, which would have taken in the Bastille Day celebrations, but we delayed due to my Nephew's wedding tomorrow in Battle. *******s is the only way I can describe these beings.They cannot be called Human.

My thoughts are with the wonderful people of Nice and France.

Good will win, in the end.

TNBA

TTF

 

[clippedgull]

right, so there's no real evidence of this. i have no illusion that some estates of London, or any other major cities, are not friendly to police and they have procedures for attending those areas. but i'm also certain there are no Muslim ghettos either.

Well I'm not privy to 'evidence' to support the claim, I assume you would not be able to provide 'evidence' to the contrary. Only the people on the ground would know the true state of play.

A Google search brings up a newspaper article with un-named police officers confirming what Trump says, but its 'only' a newspaper.

I'm not going to link to the article, but its out there to read if anyone wishes.

 

[heathgate]

Tunisians make up the most foreign fighters fighting for Isis.More than Saudis depending on what source you believe. Morocco also has a lot of fighters with Isis. Not convinced it has much to do with France's past.with Algerians. As pointed out France is a very tolerant country

Why is there big support from north African countries fighting for Isis?

The whole of North Africa is essentially Sunni....... only leaving Iran really as the counter balance Shia dominated nation. IS is predominantly sunni and see Shia as apostate as we know. Saudi money men are the main finance behind IS even though they are in the anti IS air attack coalition.

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[Danny-Boy]

I worked in Paris in th late 1970's..it was scary then. The Metro was full of hostile types from North Africa. They will now have bred a second generation of the deprived and angry.

 

[The Spanish]

It might be, but that's only a fair reaction to a point. I shall explain:

The reason the French are more susceptible to attack from Muslims is that we have historically been far more tolerant than the French. Problems in France go back decades. As recently as 1961, the French national police massacred loads of Algerians on the banks of the Seine (40 dead officially, 200+ unofficially) while Algerians clamoured for independence. Stuff like that runs deep - we've seen it in Northern Ireland where, and I'm not debating who was at fault here but, Bloody Sunday succeeded in driving hundreds of non-politicised Catholics into the hands of the PIRA because of the perception that British troops slaughtered 12 innocent Catholic civilians.

In the French world, there are always two ways of doing things: the French way and the wrong way. They don't preach tolerance as a nation in the same way we do. We have our faults obviously, but that isn't one of them. The result for us is a relative peace dividend, which continues to pay out despite our often repugnant foreign policy compared to theirs.

If we were less tolerant and suffered the level of attrocities the French are suffering, I'd probably agree. But we are more tolerant, and we haven't suffered to the same level recently.

there was a lot of talk a few years ago about the French model of integration being much better than our laissez faire Multicultural policy, which became received wisdom for a while until France erupted into riots.

It ebbs and flows, bien pensant commentators in the UK praise our model until something like 7/7 causes a re-assessment.

There are very good reasons to look at and analyse other countries policies and their successes, but there does seem to be a superficial debate where they are either effective, good or bad depending on the latest atrocities. The debate needs to be deeper than that, but that's a debate our societies are very much averse to.

 

[Greavsey]

An interview on the BBC today said the main factor is that the French intelligent Services just arent as good or as far reaching as many others, the driving factor is supposedly if you ask the French which would you prefer 'privacy' or 'greater security' they choose privacy every time ....

Just look at the complete horlicks the French police made of policing the Euro's to exemplify how inept their security services are likely to be.

 

[SK1NT]

You know....I think that upsetting a few sensibilities is probably a price worth paying if the end result is the eradication of extremism and/or death on the scale seen last night...... whatever the origin of said extremism.

If it is Islam, or a version/corruption of Islam that is at the root of these attacks then that is where your investigative and reactive energies should be focused.

Of course not every Muslim is a terrorist, anyone with half a brain knows that,... but it is indisputable that, at this time in our history, almost every terrorist is a Muslim.

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Agree... but u know as well as i do that a few simple people will tar all muslims with the same brush...

 

[heathgate]

I worked in Paris in th late 1970's..it was scary then. The Metro was full of hostile types from North Africa. They will now have bred a second generation of the deprived and angry.

These people sadly, were angry and deprived long before they migrated into the western democracies to settle.... they cannot integrate, their cultural and religious parameters will not allow them to..... this may be a simplification and a generalisation, but it is an accurate reflection of the reality of what is happening.


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[alfredmizen]

The whole of North Africa is essentially Sunni....... only leaving Iran really as the counter balance Shia dominated nation. IS is predominantly sunni and see Shia as apostate as we know. Saudi money men are the main finance behind IS even though they are in the anti IS air attack coalition.

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Iraq is also majority Shia mate.

 

[heathgate]

Iraq is also majority Shia mate.

Yes... about 60-40....

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[The Clamp]

The French policing tactic has traditionally been to ignore preventiona, wait for something to happen and then go steaming in, fairly uneffectively with batons twirling. This, they are slowly finding out, doesn't work with suicide attackers.

 

[oneillco]

Just look at the complete horlicks the French police made of policing the Euro's to exemplify how inept their security services are likely to be.

The French police were very effective during Euro 2016 in discouraging/preventing any terrorist attacks - their number 1 priority. But I presume you mean their failure to stop 150 Russians from intruding on the usual obnoxious posturing of England fans in city squares. I expect they could have done without that side-show when they were more concerned about suicide bombers.

 

[symyjym]

Agree... but u know as well as i do that a few simple people will tar all muslims with the same brush...

All Muslims have a responsibility to identify and understand the route of the problem in their religion. There is a lot of denial and excuses out there, and it is everyone elses fault.

The only Muslims who are honest about it are ex Muslims.

 

[Greavsey]

The French police were very effective during Euro 2016 in discouraging/preventing any terrorist attacks - their number 1 priority. But I presume you mean their failure to stop 150 Russians from intruding on the usual obnoxious posturing of England fans in city squares. I expect they could have done without that side-show when they were more concerned about suicide bombers.

It was widely reported that they were ridiculously heavy handed, rather than trying to prevent trouble through mingling with the fans and talking to potential trouble makers before something happens (a tactic that UK and German police have used successfully), they sat back and waited for trouble and then waded in with tear gas and baton charges.

 

[sir albion]

But from the point of view of a very foreign-minded religious extremist, French culture isn't noticeably different from English or German or Italian, so why have the French suffered more than those? So I don't think your trite comments really explain anything beyond your own pre-held beliefs about that religion.

It's hard to say why although France do have 8 million Muslims and they have ghetto type mini towns around the outskirts that is a no go for police and like someone said earlier they have many North Africans and Arab Muslims.
Severe poverty and no hope for many is also an issue....sadly France will only get worse as the years go on as will most of Europe.

The futures bleak that's for sure and don't see how this will ever improve as the world is becoming more and more fragmented.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

Here's the guy who did it...

... his first name is Mohamed. Interesting, isn't it? Not Miguel, not Mark, not Helmuth or Vladimir... it's Mohamed. *profoundly shocked*

How can a person who shares the first name with the great prophet Mohammad (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), the prophet of Religion of Peace, commit such monstrous crime? Unbelievable.

As a protest we should bring millions more muslims into Europe to show that we will not be intimidated by terror. Frau Merkel is preparing a brand new invitation as I write.

 

[Soulman]

Very sad and a waste of innocent lives. This was France's day of celebration, a day when adults and children would have been happy together.
Enough said from me i think today on the subject.
RIP to all who died and thoughts for those that have lost loved ones.

 

[Bold Seagull]

All Muslims have a responsibility to identify and understand the route of the problem in their religion. There is a lot of denial and excuses out there, and it is everyone elses fault.

The only Muslims who are honest about it are ex Muslims.

For 1500 years Muslims and Islam have been in Europe, 45 million or whatever of them now, living mostly happily, integrated throughout our society, from MPs to Doctors, teachers, police. The politics of their homelands, the brutal regimes, the wars we've seen for decades have created a faction of the Muslim world that you simply cannot taint an entire religion with. Anders Breviek killed 77 people, mainly teenagers, he is rightly considered a psychopath radicalised by the far right. Had he been a Muslim we would have seen that tragedy completely differently. But, crucially there is no difference between Breviek and the driver of this lorry. Both easily radicalised by a doctrine of hate, both able to commit mass murder in the name of a belief. The murderer of Jo Cox no different.

Every religion can be driven to extremism, and almost everyone has at one time or another. The language of hate is an easy tool to radicalise if you can present it as the word of God. For some, like Breviek, you don't even need the word of God.

What do you want to happen, 1.6 Billion Muslims all to say, yes our religion encourages us to be violent, when the vast majority are not violent at all? 5 out of the last 12 Nobel Peace Prize winners have been Muslims. It would be like getting 1.2 Billion Catholics to admit that their religion encourages paedophilia.

The denial and excuses are that we expect some kind of convenient answer, that we can just say, oh its this bit from their book, or its migrants, or whatever else to ease our need for an explanation - it would make us feel safer. However it isn't simple is it. Europe lives with 45 million Muslims, and the continent has seen far more violence from separatists, civil or political factions, or just random acts. Of 1000 terrorist attacks recorded in Europe over the past 5 years, less than 2% were connected to religion.

In our lifetimes we've seen what ordinary Christians can be driven to under the stress of violence. I cannot get my head around how we never blamed Christianity for Northern Ireland and yet need to blame Islam for these atrocities? What is the difference? One was more political, but what do you think the middle east is? The paramilitaries found it easy enough to radicalise plenty of willing people to blow up kids and families out shopping on British streets, and it follows another religion finds it just as easy enough to do the same.

If Islam really was a religion of hate, do you not think we'd be seeing wide spread attacks in every city in the world from a population of 1.6 Billion Muslims? Doesn't stack up that conclusion.

It isn't everyone else's fault, because you are never going to find a convenient 'fault' to blame it on. That is a hurdle we need to get our heads around.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Here's the guy who did it...

... his first name is Mohamed. Interesting, isn't it? Not Miguel, not Mark, not Helmuth or Vladimir... it's Mohamed. *profoundly shocked*

How can a person who shares the first name with the great prophet Mohammad (sallallahu alayhi wasallam), the prophet of Religion of Peace, commit such monstrous crime? Unbelievable.

As a protest we should bring millions more muslims into Europe to show that we will not be intimidated by terror. Frau Merkel is preparing a brand new invitation as I write.

He was a French national born in Nice. The Syrian refugees are not all Muslims although the majority will be. That's the problem with generatlisations.