Learning Italian

[silky1]

Has anybody ever learnt a language using a CD or CD Rom package?

Can you recommend any specific publication?

 

[afters]

the bbc packs tend to be quite good, dvd cd and book.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Are you going to visit Turienzo in Brescia??

I am currently learning Spanish from a free book and CD from the Independant. I have only ever had two weeks Spanish school in Ecuador previously. Very good so far and worth a shot at least.

I would agree with afters. A relative used the BBC to learn Japanese and it proved to be very useful indeed (The software etc. not the Japanese)

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Having learned my Italian on the ground in Italy, living in a place where very few people spoke English, my advice is to start with the basic rules of grammar (stuff like the correct forms of the definite and indefinite articles, verb structures, how nouns and adjectives work, what a complete sentence looks like, etc.)

I know it's not fashionable to say this, but this first stage is best done through reading the language, rather than attempting to speak it.

You're interested in football. Use some websites (in combination with a dictionary) to improve your reading skills. Try http://www.gazzetta.it/

After a few weeks of this - and I suggest you write down in a notebook, as you go along, what it is that you have learned - move on to vocabulary and speaking skills. If you've done a few weeks of reading Italian, you'll have picked up a remarkable amount of vocabulary anyway.

It's at the next stage that a CD package will come into its own. It's some years since I used anything like this, but I used to reckon that stuff produced by the BBC was good - I've got Buongiorno Italia! on vinyl. It's a bit 'touristy' in it's slant, but so what? Most people visiting Italy from English speaking countries can't help but spend much of their time being tourists, even if they think their trip is for some other purpose.

Good luck! But heed my first paragraph - first learn some grammar the old-fashioned way.

 

[silky1]

Thanks for the advice. Never been a great linguist (much to my annoyance) but have always found reading French and Spanish easier than understanding the spoken word.

I might get a cheap BBC set off ebay to start with.

And spend a bit of time on some Italian clubs message boards

 

[Man of Harveys]

May I - politely but respectfully disagree with Lord B? I'd start learning any language with their "words for things", i.e. vocab. I think that's probably how you learn languages most instinctively. I'm fairly sure that's how I picked up German very quickly as a six year old - I wanted to know how to say table, or car or house, not what the difference between the accusative and the dative was - that sort of stuff falls into place naturally later on, I'd say.

Can't beat going somewhere to learn though - I could understand 70-80% of the news on Spanish telly after being there for a week.

 

[Trufflehound]

I've done the Hugo's Italian in 3 Months (was a tape course, but it may have been upgraded to CD ROM), and that gives you the basics. But as his Lordship says, you have to back that up with getting a paper (or going onlline) and reading to get a proper feel of "wot it's writ proper like".

And go there on holiday to practice. A lot. Not just to improve the language, but because it's a great country all-round.

 

[Trufflehound]

I'd start learning any language with their "words for things", i.e. vocab. I think that's probably how you learn languages most instinctively. I'm fairly sure that's how I picked up German very quickly as a six year old - I wanted to know how to say table, or car or house, not what the difference between the accusative and the dative was - that sort of stuff falls into place naturally later on, I'd say.

Not sure that works so well as an adult though. Mrs Trufflehound is fluent in Spanish, and having been with her for 22 years I can understand the language pretty well and know a lot of vocab.

But I fall flat on my face if I try to string a sentence together, which is actually quite a useful thing in many situations. My usual stock Spanish phrase is "Entiendo bien, pero no ablo mucho."

 

[Josky]

The best Italian language learning course I've done is Michel Thomas CD course. It's eight hours of lessons with just this bloke talking with two other students trying to learn the language. The good thing about it is there is no reading or writing involved, just dealing with the spoken aspect of the language.

Although it's not suited for vocab and all the stuff you would need if you went on holiday, it is superb in getting the grammar and sentence structure down which you can then supplement with your own vocab learning.

I guarantee if you try it you'll think it's superb. To buy it costs around £32 on Play.com, but libraries normally have it so if you rent it out and copy it onto iTunes or something then you can listen to it on your iPod.

I'm beginning to sound like an advert, but I genuinely reckon it's great.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

May I - politely but respectfully disagree with Lord B? I'd start learning any language with their "words for things", i.e. vocab. I think that's probably how you learn languages most instinctively. I'm fairly sure that's how I picked up German very quickly as a six year old - I wanted to know how to say table, or car or house, not what the difference between the accusative and the dative was - that sort of stuff falls into place naturally later on, I'd say.

Can't beat going somewhere to learn though - I could understand 70-80% of the news on Spanish telly after being there for a week.

Kids learn languages quite differently from adults.

But I don't disagree with the basic suggestion that things will be speeded up by total immersion. It was a positive advantage to my learning Italian to be in a place where no-one spoke English and where English media (newspapers and television) were simply unavailable.

The march of Rupert Murdoch all over the world has, sadly, put an end to that state of affairs.

 

[Robot Chicken]

...and they do like their football too

 

[afters]

May I - politely but respectfully disagree with Lord B? I'd start learning any language with their "words for things", i.e. vocab. I think that's probably how you learn languages most instinctively. I'm fairly sure that's how I picked up German very quickly as a six year old - I wanted to know how to say table, or car or house, not what the difference between the accusative and the dative was - that sort of stuff falls into place naturally later on, I'd say.

Can't beat going somewhere to learn though - I could understand 70-80% of the news on Spanish telly after being there for a week.

another dissenting voice i'm afraid.
i'm a strong believer in the spoken approach over the written. if you can get by in the wrong tense or by mixing tu and vous (or the italian equivalent) than so be it.

speak first then bolster the grammar

 

[110%]

The best Italian language learning course I've done is Michel Thomas CD course. It's eight hours of lessons with just this bloke talking with two other students trying to learn the language. The good thing about it is there is no reading or writing involved, just dealing with the spoken aspect of the language.

Although it's not suited for vocab and all the stuff you would need if you went on holiday, it is superb in getting the grammar and sentence structure down which you can then supplement with your own vocab learning.

I guarantee if you try it you'll think it's superb. To buy it costs around £32 on Play.com, but libraries normally have it so if you rent it out and copy it onto iTunes or something then you can listen to it on your iPod.

I'm beginning to sound like an advert, but I genuinely reckon it's great.

Seconded. Its dead easy to follow and its surprising how quick you pick things up.

As with all these things, its how much time you can devote to it thats important. I got halfway through the Italian one, listening to it on the way to work but then changed jobs and haven't had the time to carry on.

 

[Lady Bracknell]

As the person in this household who doesn't speak fluent Italian but is doing their indolent best to get there, I've been tackling this by the grammatical and spoken approach. My first problem was getting French pronounciation out of my head since although there are similarities in certain words, they actually sound very different. I got this aspect sorted in Italy where Lord B made me read out public notices and while I probably looked like an eejit, a brief spell of buffoonery paid dividends!

I've always found it very easy to pick up vocabulary and have umpteen Italian words stored away in my brain. Without the grammar, they are well nigh useless and this is what frustrates me most when I'm in Italy because it's impossible to have a proper conversation! Unlike when I'm in France because I learnt French from the age of 6 in the traditional (probably over grammatical) manner, I can't imagine not knowing the verbs to go with the nouns.

I did go to evening classes which were quite good fun but the curriculum concentrated on too much of the "two beers and a coffee" stuff and made the dangerous assumption that grammar was something that would mysteriously arrive.

I've now got a notebook where I write down the grammatical stuff and learn it much as I did French. I also continue to pick up vocabulary and I've found that reading Italian newspapers has been a huge help. When we're in Italy, I set myself a series of more difficult things to do without Lord B so that I can't be baled out of conversational f*** ups!

But while it's an unfashionable approach, I still reckon you can't get a decent understanding of any language if you don't take on the grammar as well as the vocabulary.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Why don't we run an NSC course?

Lesson One

1. Without the help of Babelfish or anything similar, translate this story into English:-

McClaren fa fuori Beckham

Il nuovo c.t. comunicherà oggi la rosa dei convocati per l’amichevole del 16 agosto contro la Grecia e tra questi nomi non ci sarà quello dello Spice Boy, per una questione d'età.


2. Using any resource you want, find out what 'c.t' means?


3. Now read the original sentence out loud to yourself in what you hope is a good Italian accent.


4. Now identify which bits were difficult, and why.


5. Now explain, in English, why McClaren is a better manager than Ericsson.

 

[Yoda]

Why don't we run an NSC course?

Lesson One

1. Without the help of Babelfish or anything similar, translate this story into English:-

McClaren fa fuori Beckham
McClaren to drop Beckham

Il nuovo c.t. comunicherà oggi la rosa dei convocati
per l’amichevole del 16 agosto contro la Grecia
for the freindly(?not sure) on 16 August against Greece
e tra questi nomi non ci sarà quello dello Spice Boy, per una questione d'età.


2. Using any resource you want, find out what 'c.t' means?


3. Now read the original sentence out loud to yourself in what you hope is a good Italian accent.


4. Now identify which bits were difficult, and why.


5. Now explain, in English, why McClaren is a better manager than Ericsson.

I know a few bits.

Getting better as my girlfriend is Italian. (Doesn't help that she can understand it but not speak it.)