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[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......



Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,166
Faversham
Yes he's shut them down for now but if he gets the massive majority predicted watch them crawl out of the woodwork same as the loony right did with a massive tory majority.
He will simply have to keep slapping them down.
 




Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,461
Surrey
They are hardly going to state this during an election campaign. Tax cuts/rises are the one thing that really motivates people to vote for and against a party.

I agree they will have to raise revenue somehow, so this will probably happen at some point though.
There's a difference between not saying they will raise taxes and specifically ruling it out. I'm slightly annoyed they did the latter. But I'm more annoyed at the double standards of the press that demand they do exactly that. When the Tories produce a manifesto, it's rarely worth the paper it's written on as they hardly ever bother to produce any costed material. On the other hand, Labour produced a costed manifesto in 2019 and the media spent their time picking holes in it, rather than demanding the Conservatives produce anything whatsoever.
 


Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,461
Surrey
Get over yourself, it was a joke.
Not a very funny one. How anyone can lump in Starmer with that irritating pigmy as if they are two cheeks of the same arse is totally beyond me. One went to Harrow, spends more than an average nurses salary heating his swimming pool, has had his snout in the trough and has wasted billions on his retarded flagship Rwanda policy that clearly won't work. The other is a state educated political leader who rose to the very top of the legal profession because he was so competent.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,166
Faversham
In principle yes, breaking, or u-turning if you prefer, on one or two is the mark of flexibility. But to break, or U-turn, on ALL the pledges he made speaks to something else in my book.


Ten? Here is the first:

10 Broken Pledges

Economic Justice

You promised “no stepping back from our core principles”, but:
Your campaign was funded by Trevor Chinn, who, according to citywire.co.uk has “defended low income tax rates and the loopholes used by the wealthy to avoid paying tax” (https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manag...th-taxes/a315788/print?section=wealth-manager). Your commitment to this issue is therefore in question, as is your personal judgement.

FFS. That isn't a broken pledge! I would except a more critical narrative from the daily mail. Someone who gave money to Labour has written and article in favour of the current tax system, therefore Starmer is a liar?

All the other ten are a similar load of bollocks, the nuance tortured into a criticism-narrative.

But crack on an vote Conservative if it make you feel virtuous.
 




Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,194
Withdean area
I am curious to see what they do when they have difficult decisions to make, although there is a lot of low hanging fruit that can be picked before it gets to that. Improving trade relations with the EU, and taxing private education are two excellent, sensible policies but stuff like that won't fix everything.

It annoys me that they are ruling out tax rises for a start, when it is quite clear something has to be done to pay for the Tory mess where nothing in the public sector works.

Imho that's to work with the international markets/IMF, we're not an island in financial terms. We've seen economies trashed where governments didn't comply with the 'sensible norm' ...... Lamont, Truss, Greece/Portugal/Spain/Greece.

I think there will be tax rises, Reeves hasn't ruled out every conceivable tax I think. CGT, IHT for example.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,607
It annoys me that they are ruling out tax rises for a start, when it is quite clear something has to be done to pay for the Tory mess where nothing in the public sector works.
too early for a meltdown (internal nonsences aside) they are boxing themselves into a corner. for 10 years they complain not enough spending on this or that. then they commit to the same spending plans as Conservatives? either a lot of expectations will not be met or promises broken. price of getting in to power perhaps.
 


midnight_rendezvous

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
3,743
The Black Country
Ten? Here is the first:

10 Broken Pledges

Economic Justice

You promised “no stepping back from our core principles”, but:
Your campaign was funded by Trevor Chinn, who, according to citywire.co.uk has “defended low income tax rates and the loopholes used by the wealthy to avoid paying tax” (https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manag...th-taxes/a315788/print?section=wealth-manager). Your commitment to this issue is therefore in question, as is your personal judgement.

FFS. That isn't a broken pledge! I would except a more critical narrative from the daily mail. Someone who gave money to Labour has written and article in favour of the current tax system, therefore Starmer is a liar?

All the other ten are a similar load of bollocks, the nuance tortured into a criticism-narrative.

But crack on an vote Conservative if it make you feel virtuous.
Voting Tory and being virtuous, now there's an oxymoron if ever I heard one!

You bemoan a lack of nuance and yet call people who take umbrage with the treatment of Abbott as "hard left". Jesus wept that sort of lack of self-awareness is truly mind boggling.
 




nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
14,150
Manchester
I do get annoyed when I hear the 'they're all the same' trope, because they clearly aren't. This current bunch have overseen the most corrupt and self-serving parliament that I've experienced in my life. Whilst I may not have been supportive of their policies, there's no way that previous goverments under Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown or even Cameron ever exhibited such a low level of competence and took the piss so brazenly.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,166
Faversham
Voting Tory and being virtuous, now there's an oxymoron if ever I heard one!

You bemoan a lack of nuance and yet call people who take umbrage with the treatment of Abbott as "hard left". Jesus wept that sort of lack of self-awareness is truly mind boggling.
1. Well you clearly feel good about dissing labour. You may not vote tory but campaigning against labour is wind in the same direction.

2. I am not bemoaning a lack of nuance. I am saying that these points have been tortured into a narrative to make them seem critical.

I have referred to the people who are criticising the 'treatment' of Abbott as hard left and hard right, each with a different agenda.

You were unable to come up with any broken pledges when asked, and are now accusing me of a lack of self-awareness? OK, mate :shrug:
 




LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
47,413
SHOREHAM BY SEA
Yes he's shut them down for now but if he gets the massive majority predicted watch them crawl out of the woodwork same as the loony right did with a massive tory majority.
If he gets the massive majority predicted (in your words)…he’ll have less reliance on them to push through policy (it’s been said)
 


midnight_rendezvous

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2012
3,743
The Black Country
1. Well you clearly feel good about dissing labour. You may not vote tory but campaigning against labour is wind in the same direction.

2. I am not bemoaning a lack of nuance. I am saying that these points have been tortured into a narrative to make them seem critical.

I have referred to the people who are criticising the 'treatment' of Abbott as hard left and hard right, each with a different agenda.

You were unable to come up with any broken pledges when asked, and are now accusing me of a lack of self-awareness? OK, mate :shrug:
"Dissing" and "campaigning" against Labour? Blimey, bit overdramatic. I wonder if it was "wind the same direction" when the centrists were actively trying to undermine Corbyn...


I gave you two articles showcasing how pledges have been "rolled-backed", U-turned, or broken, and you clearly disagree, as is your right. But why are you "dissing" and lazily typecasting those who criticise the way Abbott has been treated? Surely someone as intelligent as yourself can see a distinct lack of consistency in which the Labour party has treated Abbott as to say someone like Coyle or Reed? Or does pointing that out make me "hard-left"? 🤔
 
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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,166
Faversham
Imho that's to work with the international markets/IMF, we're not an island in financial terms. We've seen economies trashed where governments didn't comply with the 'sensible norm' ...... Lamont, Truss, Greece/Portugal/Spain/Greece.

I think there will be tax rises, Reeves hasn't ruled out every conceivable tax I think. CGT, IHT for example.
She hasn't ruled out an increase in VAT.

As an aside, I have R5 on now and it seems that everyone on the left who hasn't got over the demise of Corbyn is sending txts and emails, pouring vitriol on traitor Starmer. Anyone might think this reflects the national mood. Of course it is no different from the massive rebellions predicted by Momentum after the demise of Corbyn (and tropes backed by Abbott herself). Hot air puffed into a very small echo chamber. Of course if there is a massive collapse in the labour poll position in a week (it takes that long) then I may take all this seriously. I may even boo. BOO!. boo.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,166
Faversham
There's a difference between not saying they will raise taxes and specifically ruling it out. I'm slightly annoyed they did the latter. But I'm more annoyed at the double standards of the press that demand they do exactly that. When the Tories produce a manifesto, it's rarely worth the paper it's written on as they hardly ever bother to produce any costed material. On the other hand, Labour produced a costed manifesto in 2019 and the media spent their time picking holes in it, rather than demanding the Conservatives produce anything whatsoever.
Precisely, and a comment that resonates with a bit of blather I posted earlier this morning.

What has politics got in common with football? Both are a funny old game.

And no matter how nicely and entertainingly and gentlemanly and openly one may play, at the end of the day you must win.
 


Pevenseagull

Anti-greed coalition
Jul 20, 2003
20,170
Good to see that Abbott has said she will be campaigning for a Labour victory. I assume that will be in her constituency where she is clearly very popular.
 




ROSM

Well-known member
Dec 26, 2005
6,499
Just far enough away from LDC
Imho that's to work with the international markets/IMF, we're not an island in financial terms. We've seen economies trashed where governments didn't comply with the 'sensible norm' ...... Lamont, Truss, Greece/Portugal/Spain/Greece.

I think there will be tax rises, Reeves hasn't ruled out every conceivable tax I think. CGT, IHT for example.
I do fear that vat may be on her agenda. Unless it's specifically targeted it can be a blunt TOOL
 




The Antikythera Mechanism

The oldest known computer
NSC Patron
Aug 7, 2003
7,934
Not a very funny one. How anyone can lump in Starmer with that irritating pigmy as if they are two cheeks of the same arse is totally beyond me. One went to Harrow, spends more than an average nurses salary heating his swimming pool, has had his snout in the trough and has wasted billions on his retarded flagship Rwanda policy that clearly won't work. The other is a state educated political leader who rose to the very top of the legal profession because he was so competent.
Okey dokey, In future, I'll run any light hearted comments past you, on a DM for approval, before posting. :ROFLMAO:
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
66,194
Withdean area
She hasn't ruled out an increase in VAT.

As an aside, I have R5 on now and it seems that everyone on the left who hasn't got over the demise of Corbyn is sending txts and emails, pouring vitriol on traitor Starmer. Anyone might think this reflects the national mood. Of course it is no different from the massive rebellions predicted by Momentum after the demise of Corbyn (and tropes backed by Abbott herself). Hot air puffed into a very small echo chamber. Of course if there is a massive collapse in the labour poll position in a week (it takes that long) then I may take all this seriously. I may even boo. BOO!. boo.

I'm listening to that on delay.

Is that a painful listen for you as a moderate Labour member/supporter? A magnet for the left who we know, we've spoke about this, will secretly always want a Blair or Starmer government to fail.
 


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