Just five years in custody

[bhaexpress]

exactly, well said. people need to think a bit more before they come out with the lock em up and throw away the key crap.

That's all well and good but at the end of the day why did she put up with it ? Also, surely she must know that letting the kids watch violent films and porn plus smoking weed is just wrong ? I have some sympathy but not much.

 

[User removed 4]

They will probably get expensive new ID's as well, a la Thompson and Venebles.

i know i will get flamed by the NSC resident liberals, but after reading what they did to jamie bulger, and having kids myself, i'm firmly of the opinion that those two bastards should still be locked up now, they were old enough to have a pretty good understanding of what they were doing,i dont think any amount of physchiatric help can change you into a normal person from the kind of monster capable of what they did.

 

[User removed 4]

How can an 11 and 12 year old manage to do this to an UNCLE and nephew? One assumes the uncle was fairly old (in comparison to 11 and 12)? Have I missed something here...

i went to school with an uncle and a nephew who were in the same year, it doesnt take a lot of working out, some people have more kids very late in life.

 

[little al]

How can an 11 and 12 year old manage to do this to an UNCLE and nephew? One assumes the uncle was fairly old (in comparison to 11 and 12)? Have I missed something here...

The victims were 11 and 9.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

A friend of mine works in a secure unit for under 18's and some of the crimes they have commited are atrocious, okay not on the same level as this but violent rapists are the least they deal with. She says that as soon as they are away from their families or the cause of their behaviour (boyfriends, abusers etc) most of them show signs of at least trying to behave like "normal" kids. I'm not saying what these two did deserves "just a chance to be normal" but the first step is to get all concerned into an environment where not only is this kind of behaviour absalutely not tolerated but where professionals can begin to unravel the mess they have become.

"Unravelling the mess" will be a real challenge for the professionals who will have responsibility for the care of these two children. There must be very few secure units that are properly geared up to deal with 11 and 12 year olds with the history of violence that these two have.

I just hope that the people involved can be allowed to get on and do their job without constant media speculation about how "soft" the punishment is.

 

[Igor Gurinovich?]

That's all well and good but at the end of the day why did she put up with it ? Also, surely she must know that letting the kids watch violent films and porn plus smoking weed is just wrong ? I have some sympathy but not much.

couldnt help wondering that.. Its appaling the treatment the mother received and I wouldnt try to imagine the impact it had, but surely allowing children of that age to watch porn and films like Childs Play etc would strike anyone as inappropriate, add to that cigarettes, cannabis and cider and i'd struggle to fathom any parent that could defend their behaviour.

 

[janee]

That's all well and good but at the end of the day why did she put up with it ? Also, surely she must know that letting the kids watch violent films and porn plus smoking weed is just wrong ? I have some sympathy but not much.

Statistically most women are seriously harmed or even killed whilst trying to leave violent partners and most of them know exactly how dangerous it is. She doesn't sound like a good parent but can't judge if subjected to loads of abuse.

 

[little al]

i know i will get flamed by the NSC resident liberals, but after reading what they did to jamie bulger, and having kids myself, i'm firmly of the opinion that those two bastards should still be locked up now, they were old enough to have a pretty good understanding of what they were doing,i dont think any amount of physchiatric help can change you into a normal person from the kind of monster capable of what they did.

I totally agree with you.

 

[Seagull over NZ]

That's all well and good but at the end of the day why did she put up with it ? Also, surely she must know that letting the kids watch violent films and porn plus smoking weed is just wrong ? I have some sympathy but not much.

Very easy to say that she should have walked away but the threat of a violent and manipulative husband is far more complex than just "walking away". Otherwise why would so many people stay in abusive relationships?

Also, very easy to blame the social services, my girlfriend is a social worker and she has way more cases to deal with than the recommended number to ensure she can devote enough time to each case. Some of the parenting that goes on with her kids she looks after is truly dreadful and incredibly sad. The demise of the family unit is at the heart of a lot of hurt and pain in my opinion.

 

[Kumquat]

That's all well and good but at the end of the day why did she put up with it ? Also, surely she must know that letting the kids watch violent films and porn plus smoking weed is just wrong ? I have some sympathy but not much.

Not if she'd been brought up to believe it was ok. i know it's hard to comprehend but there are people like that That's why people are racist usually; because daddy doesn't like black people. That's what social services are there for, to take people like that into care. In both this case and the Bulger case, these boys should not have still been with their parents by that age.

 

[bhaexpress]

Not if she'd been brought up to believe it was ok. i know it's hard to comprehend but there are people like that That's why people are racist usually; because daddy doesn't like black people. That's what social services are there for, to take people like that into care. In both this case and the Bulger case, these boys should not have still been with their parents by that age.

Sorry, there's no way that kids being allowed to watch violence and porn and be allowed to smoke weed can be deemed as right, evenb if she thought so. I am not blaming her entirely but she does have a responsibility. If she doesn't then apart from her partner (who all know is very much to blame) should then ?

I don't blame social workers either, they seem to get the blame whatever they do, it's little wonder that there are so many prime time TV ads to try to recruit them.

 

[drew]

Lock up the mother who was regular victim of savage beatings herself?

She is a victim but she is also, by all accounts, culpable in their toxic family.

Father beeat mother and all children sadistically (often calm whilst seriously beating them with a smile on his face), Children allowed to smoke cannabis and drink from early age and to watch extreme violent and pornographic films. Have no concept of what is normal. Everybody loses in this one - especially our society.

Agree.

Very easy to say that she should have walked away but the threat of a violent and manipulative husband is far more complex than just "walking away". Otherwise why would so many people stay in abusive relationships?

Also, very easy to blame the social services, my girlfriend is a social worker and she has way more cases to deal with than the recommended number to ensure she can devote enough time to each case. Some of the parenting that goes on with her kids she looks after is truly dreadful and incredibly sad. The demise of the family unit is at the heart of a lot of hurt and pain in my opinion.

They were in a family unit!

 

[Kumquat]

Sorry, there's no way that kids being allowed to watch violence and porn and be allowed to smoke weed can be deemed as right, evenb if she thought so. I am not blaming her entirely but she does have a responsibility. If she doesn't then apart from her partner (who all know is very much to blame) should then ?

I don't blame social workers either, they seem to get the blame whatever they do, it's little wonder that there are so many prime time TV ads to try to recruit them.

Of course it's not right, nobody is saying it is. What i am saying is that it hapens and there are reasons why, which is upbringing. Society has a role to correct the situation and that's what social services is there for. this is not a "blame social workers" for everything rant. In this case and the bulger case though, these kids could have been dealt with a lot earlier, if social services had the right procedures in place and followed them. There are all sort of arguments about how you deal with the root of the problem, which is, people who are not fit to parent, having kids. That's an altogether more difficult problem and until we find a solution, these situations can only be prevented by social services.