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[News] Junior Doctors







Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,243
Faversham
My late father and uncle (ex GP and Cardio Thoracic Consultant respectively) would be seriously spinning in their graves at the thought of any doctors going on strike.
I do wonder whether those recruiting med students these days aren’t taking on a few of the wrong sort.
No interviews now (I was on the interview panel 20 years ago - what fun!). Grades and personal statements are key. There is a formula for the latter (a simple one - don't write I or my, and emphasize the desire to give).

I chat to students who confide there is an unashamed element that are studying medicine for kudos and money. Perhaps this is an example of the wrong sort.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
53,243
Faversham
The pension scheme applies to all NHS staff and is going through another iteration, to make up for the shortfall of clinical staff and encouraging them to return to work.

Medical staff (consultant etc), need to be careful pension wise as they end up with a ridiculous tax bill under the current scheme.

As for the junior Dr.s, everything @Harry Wilson's tackle said, in terms of future potential earnings.

Lots more sympathy with the nurses.
One of my colleagues (a consultant) spent a year negotiating a retirement and buy back part time (he took legal advice) because his pension pot was so fat he'd crossed the tax rubicon. He literally could not work any longer without losing stupid amounts of money in tax. But he didn't want to pack it in entirely. And this is after having bought houses for each of his four kids (or, at least, subsidized the arrangements so they could buy).
 


Paul Reids Sock

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2004
4,458
Paul Reids boot
I would cut them more slack if they backed up the really badly treated. The nurses.

Unless you are a twat you will be on more than £100K after 6 or 7 years (of TRAINING). GPs are struggling because they are too daft to manage their practice (hence the massive long waiting lists, and with physios and nurse practitioners dealing with the excess, wtf?).

And the private practice options for senior registrars and consultants are an eye watering delight.

No, I am fully behind all who are suffering in the NHS. But not the doctors.
As the husband of a nurse I agree with your first comment - I'm not qualified enough to comment on the other bits!

For me, the Junior Doctors went on strike previously, got their pay deal and forgot about the Nurses and Paramedics. It was them that picked up the slack on those days with no thanks. Equally it is often the nurses that are left on their own on the wards (especially in Paediatrics) and are having to give the care for too many patients and with no support. They are often spoken to like dirt when a Consultant or Doctor does appear and it all feels like the NHS got stuck in the 1950s where nurses were portrayed as secondary and there to just support and not give care. I was 100% against the Junior Doctors going on strike and felt it was a case of 'if they get more money then we want some too'.

I spoke to my wife about this and she wasn't so black and white. Whilst frustrated that it may reduce anything that the Nurses get she was saying how Junior Doctors have one hell of a job on their hands and she feels they deserve more for what they have to go through. The complex nature of the unions leads to a lot of the misalignment in action being taken and different votes etc.

Must admit to being very surprised by the response, turns out I just like getting angry! For the record she voted to strike but was over the moon when the first strike day was put on a day she was due to not work and even more happy when her team were classed as emergency care and therefore wouldn't strike anyway. However, if she had the vote today she would vote No. Her patients are too important to her and we are lucky that I have a job that pays well (not amazingly but far better than a Nurse).
 


BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,503
No interviews now (I was on the interview panel 20 years ago - what fun!). Grades and personal statements are key. There is a formula for the latter (a simple one - don't write I or my, and emphasize the desire to give).

I chat to students who confide there is an unashamed element that are studying medicine for kudos and money. Perhaps this is an example of the wrong sort.
Maybe.
Medicine used to be known as a vocation! Good heavens, no interviews? Ha, personal statements, what a farce they are. Little wonder things go awry!
PS Many years ago, I had an interview and was offered a place to study medicine at the then St. Mary’s Hospital, but alas, Physics, Chemistry and Biology were not my forte…… more of a French, Latin and English man me, and unlike quite a number of my peers and friends who went on to be medics, I slunk off into the dirty world of business!😁
 




GT49er

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 1, 2009
47,615
Gloucester
How about a deal where they get a higher wage to start with, but the rise to higher wages is slower, and the top rates when they get there will be less than they are now?
 


One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 4, 2006
22,214
Worthing
One of my colleagues (a consultant) spent a year negotiating a retirement and buy back part time (he took legal advice) because his pension pot was so fat he'd crossed the tax rubicon. He literally could not work any longer without losing stupid amounts of money in tax. But he didn't want to pack it in entirely. And this is after having bought houses for each of his four kids (or, at least, subsidized the arrangements so they could buy).
I know, had a long discussion with a radiologist the other day, who wants to continue (and they really are becoming a rare species), but effectively he’ll be penalised. Similarly, got a couple of tickets for the West Ham game for a couple of others and had the same discussion going back in the car.

The government be it conservative or labour in the future, have a massive workforce challenge about to happen/already happening - never mind the juniors. I am an advocate for upskilling (nurse endoscopy, advanced practitioners etc..), but to ensure all the sub-specialty skills are not lost some sort of deal needs to be done with the pensions to encourage those nearing 60 to stay.

Very difficult without disadvantaging others, but ultimately this will be life or death so find a way……
 


Jimmy Grimble

Well-known member
every single public sector professional pay disputes ignores that they on a rising salary treadmill, while making it look like they haven't had a pay rise in 10 years. doctor starting in 2008 should be in consultant grades by now, earning 88k+
99% sure this isn’t the case for the entirety of their careers. Teachers, for example, come off the ‘rising salary treadmill’ after around 6/7 years.
 




BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,503
As the husband of a nurse I agree with your first comment - I'm not qualified enough to comment on the other bits!

For me, the Junior Doctors went on strike previously, got their pay deal and forgot about the Nurses and Paramedics. It was them that picked up the slack on those days with no thanks. Equally it is often the nurses that are left on their own on the wards (especially in Paediatrics) and are having to give the care for too many patients and with no support. They are often spoken to like dirt when a Consultant or Doctor does appear and it all feels like the NHS got stuck in the 1950s where nurses were portrayed as secondary and there to just support and not give care. I was 100% against the Junior Doctors going on strike and felt it was a case of 'if they get more money then we want some too'.

I spoke to my wife about this and she wasn't so black and white. Whilst frustrated that it may reduce anything that the Nurses get she was saying how Junior Doctors have one hell of a job on their hands and she feels they deserve more for what they have to go through. The complex nature of the unions leads to a lot of the misalignment in action being taken and different votes etc.

Must admit to being very surprised by the response, turns out I just like getting angry! For the record she voted to strike but was over the moon when the first strike day was put on a day she was due to not work and even more happy when her team were classed as emergency care and therefore wouldn't strike anyway. However, if she had the vote today she would vote No. Her patients are too important to her and we are lucky that I have a job that pays well (not amazingly but far better than a Nurse).
Not sure I can agree with your comment re nurses not giving care in the 1950s.
My mother was a nurse throughout the war and up until 1947 and gave a lot of care. OK, that wasn’t the ‘50’s, but many of her contemporaries were still working as nurses and were very highly regarded. They all trained on the job and were not only highly skilled but were used to getting stuck in. Likewise, my grandmother was a nurse during the First World War and I have many of her references at home. Those references from senior medics and some touching letters from injured soldiers, that I have also got, show that she and her colleagues gave one hell of a lot of care and were greatly appreciated.
I can only assume we interpret the word ‘care’ in different ways.
 


BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,503
I know, had a long discussion with a radiologist the other day, who wants to continue (and they really are becoming a rare species), but effectively he’ll be penalised. Similarly, got a couple of tickets for the West Ham game for a couple of others and had the same discussion going back in the car.

The government be it conservative or labour in the future, have a massive workforce challenge about to happen/already happening - never mind the juniors. I am an advocate for upskilling (nurse endoscopy, advanced practitioners etc..), but to ensure all the sub-specialty skills are not lost some sort of deal needs to be done with the pensions to encourage those nearing 60 to stay.

Very difficult without disadvantaging others, but ultimately this will be life or death so find a way……
I’ve posted this previously, but I do believe that raising the pension threshold is a strong possibility in the forthcoming Budget. I do hope so, it would be an easy win for all concerned and is well overdue.
 


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