July 2015 budget

[Bozza]

So, in summary we seem to have some agreement on:

1. Most of us will do anything at all we can to minimise the amount of tax we pay.
2. Our country is running at a massive deficit.
3. To look after the poor and needy will take more money or, at the very least, a pragmatic way to spend the same amount of money we have been.
4. But no one actually really wants to pay for 3. See 1.

 

[Tight shorts]

Agree totally. Give people education, training and a skill set and they can transform themselves. However what is offered from the DWP in reality is completely different. I'm not playing the 'Boo Hoo Poor Me' card but my son is 22, unemployed for four years, and has Aspergers' Syndrome. He isn't entitled to any disability support, and to claim JSA he has to log on for 30 hours a week onto a website to look for jobs.

He gets sent on 'courses' to help him find a job. These courses are run by private contractors and are all identical, you are told to write down your name, date of birth, education and work history, and this is 'enhancing your CV'. The private contractor then bills the DWP for this piece of repeated crap, and it is totally soul destroying.

He's applied for over 400 jobs and has had 3 replies. He managed to get two jobs before Christmas on different shifts and was working 6am - midnight. He loved it, they both finished on Christmas Eve and now he's given up with the 30 hours of logging on and non stop applications. He's been told at the Job Centre that many employers don't want to take on people with Aspergers' as they are 'too difficult' but with Iain Duncan Smith closing down Remploy, where everyone got on because they were all 'different', what hope does he have?

So now as he doesn't claim JSA he's not deemed to be unemployed, as the system has worn him down. I financially support him, as it is clear that this government's priorities are not with the disadvantaged, but in keeping their promises to make the wealthy wealthier.

Your post really struck me and I can empathise with what you and your son are going through. A friend of mine with disabilities who is now a few years older went through similar issues and thankfully now after about six years of trying, failing, feeling hopeless, work experience, courses etc etc has found a job which she has been able to stick with. The job is working out because she has an understanding small employer who can see her strengths and not just her disabilty. Her self esteem has rocketed. It's absolutely crap that society doesn't adapt enough to employ people who are different. Let's have some changes in the next budget to encourage this more. I hope your son doesn't give up as there will be a role for him out there but it may take a long time. Can he get some more work experience and have you tried any of the Albion in the Community Want to work schemes? Not sure what they are running at the moment but they have a lot of contacts with local employers and sometimes people get offered a chance because of those contacts. Best of luck to your son.

 

[El Presidente]

So, in summary we seem to have some agreement on:

1. Most of us will do anything at all we can to minimise the amount of tax we pay.
2. Our country is running at a massive deficit.
3. To look after the poor and needy will take more money or, at the very least, a pragmatic way to spend the same amount of money we have been.
4. But no one actually really wants to pay for 3. See 1.

1: Agreed, as does the government, which is why it has things such as ISA's.
2: Agreed
3: Agreed, and anyone with compassion would prioritise those poor and needy over the significantly wealthy when it comes to tax cuts as opposed to benefit cuts.
4: Disagree, otherwise we would elect a party that abolishes the safety net totally in return for lower taxes for all.
Can I add a (5) in that Iain Duncan Smith is an incompetent ****.

 

[Bozza]

4: Disagree, otherwise we would elect a party that abolishes the safety net totally in return for lower taxes for all.

I disagree with your disagreement.

Ask most people would they be a bit more tax to help those less fortunate than themselves and they'll say yes. Cool, we're all happy to help.

Actually make it real for those people. Take £5000 out of their annual family budget, ask them to sacrifice their two weeks in the Med, to help a group of people they've never met nor seen, and they won't be anywhere as keen.

People will want better for themselves and their family if they can get it, whatever that means to them.

 

[El Presidente]

I disagree with your disagreement.

Ask most people would they be a bit more tax to help those less fortunate than themselves and they'll say yes. Cool, we're all happy to help.

Actually make it real for those people. Take £5000 out of their annual family budget, ask them to sacrifice their two weeks in the Med, to help a group of people they've never met nor seen, and they won't be anywhere as keen.

People will want better for themselves and their family if they can get it, whatever that means to them.

Isn't there a difference between a 'bit more tax' and £5k though? We agree to pay a bit more tax every time we visit a restaurant, but VAT is a cunning tax.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Agree totally. Give people education, training and a skill set and they can transform themselves. However what is offered from the DWP in reality is completely different. I'm not playing the 'Boo Hoo Poor Me' card but my son is 22, unemployed for four years, and has Aspergers' Syndrome. He isn't entitled to any disability support, and to claim JSA he has to log on for 30 hours a week onto a website to look for jobs.

He gets sent on 'courses' to help him find a job. These courses are run by private contractors and are all identical, you are told to write down your name, date of birth, education and work history, and this is 'enhancing your CV'. The private contractor then bills the DWP for this piece of repeated crap, and it is totally soul destroying.

He's applied for over 400 jobs and has had 3 replies. He managed to get two jobs before Christmas on different shifts and was working 6am - midnight. He loved it, they both finished on Christmas Eve and now he's given up with the 30 hours of logging on and non stop applications. He's been told at the Job Centre that many employers don't want to take on people with Aspergers' as they are 'too difficult' but with Iain Duncan Smith closing down Remploy, where everyone got on because they were all 'different', what hope does he have?

So now as he doesn't claim JSA he's not deemed to be unemployed, as the system has worn him down. I financially support him, as it is clear that this government's priorities are not with the disadvantaged, but in keeping their promises to make the wealthy wealthier.

Eye opener.

 

[Bozza]

Isn't there a difference between a 'bit more tax' and £5k though? We agree to pay a bit more tax every time we visit a restaurant, but VAT is a cunning tax.

Sure, but how much are we talking?

Give income tax is largely progressive, and given some fag-packet maths, I don't think it's out of the question that a middle-class middle-England family would need to contribute in the region of £5,000 more given many - all the poverty cases you have mentioned for a start - are not able to contribute any more.

That's a family holiday. That's not having Friday night takeaways, missing meals out, not going to the cinema and waiting for the DVD, VW instead of BMW.

Not many folk will make those sort of sacrifices.

 

[vegster]

After presenting an election-winning budget last time out, Gorgeous George looks set to unveil another BLOCKBUSTER later today.

[tweet]618711344406249472[/tweet]

Well lets hope you came out of this budget ok, as long as you are all right who cares ?

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Unfortunately, it appears that any positive effects of today's budget will be nullified by the Chinese stock market collapse, which will wipe out our second-biggest export market.

No doubt Osborne will explain afterwards exactly how this was the fault of the last Labour government.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Sure, but how much are we talking?

Give income tax is largely progressive, and given some fag-packet maths, I don't think it's out of the question that a middle-class middle-England family would need to contribute in the region of £5,000 more given many - all the poverty cases you have mentioned for a start - are not able to contribute any more.

That's a family holiday. That's not having Friday night takeaways, missing meals out, not going to the cinema and waiting for the DVD, VW instead of BMW.

Not many folk will make those sort of sacrifices.

I find a Volvo XC60 is so much more understated than a brash German motor.

 

[El Presidente]

Sure, but how much are we talking?

Give income tax is largely progressive, and given some fag-packet maths, I don't think it's out of the question that a middle-class middle-England family would need to contribute in the region of £5,000 more given many - all the poverty cases you have mentioned for a start - are not able to contribute any more.

That's a family holiday. That's not having Friday night takeaways, missing meals out, not going to the cinema and waiting for the DVD, VW instead of BMW.

Not many folk will make those sort of sacrifices.

Not sure how you have done your costings TBH.

Why does this tax rise you talk about have to come out of personal taxation?

 

[Bozza]

Well lets hope you came out of this budget ok, as long as you are all right who cares ?

I appreciate your concern, but I genuinely have no idea how today affects me.

I earn a decent, but not spectacular wage. My partner has not been able to find work since we moved back to Sussex from Somerset. I pay a decent chunk of what I earn in maintenance and previously freely gave nearly all of what I had accrued with my then wife in order that she could secure a decent home for herself and our daughter.

What little I did retain from that I then spent, and more besides, when I coughed up c£40,000 in legal fees fighting a move to take my daughter to live permanently in Dubai.

To all intents and purposes I restarted financially sometime around my 40th birthday. That's not ideal.

I'm not moaning, I do a lot better than a lot of people and I'm appreciative of that.

How was today for you?

 

[beorhthelm]

So now as he doesn't claim JSA he's not deemed to be unemployed, as the system has worn him down. I financially support him, as it is clear that this government's priorities are not with the disadvantaged, but in keeping their promises to make the wealthy wealthier.

feel i want to point out this is the same as i remeber in the mid 90's. not with any aliments to impede me, and without the onerous requirements to prove one is seeking work, it was still a chore. my point is, its a bureaucratic system, not really ever intended to prioritise the disadvantages, just provide a mandated welfare. its been in desperate need of reform, and while the implementation of UC seems to have gone for a Burton, the principle was sound (benefits vary as you earn; keeping you in the system until completely independent, rather than you step off the boat for a week and have to start all again). its a shame it hasn't got more cross political buy in, as the architect for much of it isnt the maligned IDS, but Frank Fields. like pensions and NHS its used as a polticial football rather than real progress being made to identify and resolve actual problems, focus is always on preceived problems.

 

[El Presidente]

feel i want to point out this is the same as i remeber in the mid 90's. not with any aliments to impede me, and without the onerous requirements to prove one is seeking work, it was still a chore. my point is, its a bureaucratic system, not really ever intended to prioritise the disadvantages, just provide a mandated welfare. its been in desperate need of reform, and while the implementation of UC seems to have gone for a Burton, the principle was sound (benefits vary as you earn; keeping you in the system until completely independent, rather than you step off the boat for a week and have to start all again). its a shame it hasn't got more cross political buy in, as the architect for much of it isnt the maligned IDS, but Frank Fields. like pensions and NHS its used as a polticial football rather than real progress being made to identify and resolve actual problems, focus is always on preceived problems.

I loathe IDS for his closure of Remploy, his comments that anyone can live off £53 a week and his complete refusal to accept responsibility for the car crash in the department that he controls.

UC doesn't come into it TBH, any change in a tax or benefit system will produce winners and losers. In principle it makes sense, but it needs someone with management experience and intelligence to oversee the change, not an ex-soldier who married a multi millionairess

 

[vegster]

I appreciate your concern, but I genuinely have no idea how today affects me.

I earn a decent, but not spectacular wage. My partner has not been able to find work since we moved back to Sussex from Somerset. I pay a decent chunk of what I earn in maintenance and previously freely gave nearly all of what I had accrued with my then wife in order that she could secure a decent home for herself and our daughter.

What little I did retain from that I then spent, and more besides when I coughed up c£40,000 in legal fees fighting a move to take my daughter to live permanently in Dubai.

To all intents and purposes I restarted financially sometime around my 40th birthday. That's not ideal.

I'm not moaning, I do a lot better than a lot of people and I'm appreciative of that.

How was today for you?

Very little affects me, I am lucky enough to own a small house, thanks to a combination of hard work, a divorce settlement and a legacy that is mortgage free. That means my £14 K annual salary is enough to keep me and pay my bills but not low enough to claim any benefits. As long as I keep working ( I'm 55 now ) I can survive ok but when I retire I will only have a small pension to top up that from the state.
Six years ago I was working for a prestigious High Street company who made a decision to change tack with how they produced their goods, I'm now doing the same job, but working harder and earning £7K a year less with no pension scheme,sick pay and less holiday. Luckily I have good health. So far.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I appreciate your concern, but I genuinely have no idea how today affects me.

I earn a decent, but not spectacular wage. My partner has not been able to find work since we moved back to Sussex from Somerset. I pay a decent chunk of what I earn in maintenance and previously freely gave nearly all of what I had accrued with my then wife in order that she could secure a decent home for herself and our daughter.

What little I did retain from that I then spent, and more besides, when I coughed up c£40,000 in legal fees fighting a move to take my daughter to live permanently in Dubai.

To all intents and purposes I restarted financially sometime around my 40th birthday. That's not ideal.

I'm not moaning, I do a lot better than a lot of people and I'm appreciative of that.

How was today for you?

Very little affects me, I am lucky enough to own a small house, thanks to a combination of hard work, a divorce settlement and a legacy that is mortgage free. That means my £14 K annual salary is enough to keep me and pay my bills but not low enough to claim any benefits. As long as I keep working ( I'm 55 now ) I can survive ok but when I retire I will only have a small pension to top up that from the state.
Six years ago I was working for a prestigious High Street company who made a decision to change tack with how they produced their goods, I'm now doing the same job, but working harder and earning £7K a year less with no pension scheme,sick pay and less holiday. Luckily I have good health. So far.

PS - with all due respect to you both from someone else who lost everything to his ex-wife.

 

[El Presidente]

View attachment 66770

PS - with all due respect to you both from someone else who lost everything to his ex-wife.

Can I join the club too, suspect there's quite a few of us.

To be fair I did seek the advice of some here and then decided to be a muppet and ignore it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I appreciate your concern, but I genuinely have no idea how today affects me.

I earn a decent, but not spectacular wage. My partner has not been able to find work since we moved back to Sussex from Somerset. I pay a decent chunk of what I earn in maintenance and previously freely gave nearly all of what I had accrued with my then wife in order that she could secure a decent home for herself and our daughter.

What little I did retain from that I then spent, and more besides, when I coughed up c£40,000 in legal fees fighting a move to take my daughter to live permanently in Dubai.

To all intents and purposes I restarted financially sometime around my 40th birthday. That's not ideal.

I'm not moaning, I do a lot better than a lot of people and I'm appreciative of that.

How was today for you?

I judge budgets on how they will effect the needy and disadvantaged so yesterday wasn't good for me.

But if you want to know about me personally, I'm slightly better off.

 

[Chicken Run]

I appreciate your concern, but I genuinely have no idea how today affects me.

I earn a decent, but not spectacular wage. My partner has not been able to find work since we moved back to Sussex from Somerset. I pay a decent chunk of what I earn in maintenance and previously freely gave nearly all of what I had accrued with my then wife in order that she could secure a decent home for herself and our daughter.

What little I did retain from that I then spent, and more besides, when I coughed up c£40,000 in legal fees fighting a move to take my daughter to live permanently in Dubai.

To all intents and purposes I restarted financially sometime around my 40th birthday. That's not ideal.

I'm not moaning, I do a lot better than a lot of people and I'm appreciative of that.

How was today for you?

I'm almost exactly the same as above although I have 3 children that over the last 9 years have been paying maintenance for, I don't own my own home I rent and will continue to do so, I no longer pay for my 19 yo and thankfully he has a job. I am however disappointed that a number of people on here bleat about looking after those less fortunate almost to the level of obsession but in reality do **** all for them!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am however disappointed that a number of people on here bleat about looking after those less fortunate almost to the level of obsession but in reality do **** all for them!

How do you know what I or others do? It's just a guess isn't it?