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Julian Assange Unlawfully Detained

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Tyrone Biggums

Resident Australian
Jun 25, 2006
12,898
Geelong, Australia
And investigative journalists, and their allies, that believe that protection for those that expose wrong-doing by governments is an important part of a functioning democracy?
That's who I am mainly seeing step up in (reluctant) defence.

'First they came for the egotistical, mysogynist ********s...'

Investigative journos are almost a thing of the past. Who is left to carry out that work these days?

I think Wikileaks was a result of this kind of journalism disappearing.
 


highflyer

Members
Jan 21, 2016
2,241
Investigative journos are almost a thing of the past. Who is left to carry out that work these days?

I think Wikileaks was a result of this kind of journalism disappearing.

On the contrary, the increasing amount of information 'leaking' is an absolute boon to real investigative journalists
And raw data needs someone to sift through, work out what is important and turn it into a story.

A few examples just from my personal knowledge (all organizations that have grown/are growing fast):

https://www.icij.org/
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/
https://www.financeuncovered.org/
https://www.globalwitness.org/en-gb/
 

AlastairWatts

Members
Nov 1, 2009
495
High Wycombe
I sure he has a point somewhere but he comes across as such an obnoxious, self centred sleaze ball. Personally, I’d rather he kept himself out of Britain and caused his havoc back home. He’s cost our country enough money - if he doesn’t get extradited then send him home to Aussi.

Exactly. He's got a (new) Australian passport so simply deport him to Oz and let them worry about the Americans. Simples.
 


symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
I don't agree with you. Firstly, 'our country' isn't one static thing - it was Blair and his government that lead us to war with Iraq, and I doubt our current government agrees with that decision. I also believe we do practice what we preach - we preach human rights, free speech (except hate speech etc), the right to change governments etc, and we allow our citizens those things. Places like China, Russia, and countries in the middle east do not. And we aren't generally bombing countries into democracy - the places we have been intervening with have had governments bombing their own civilians before we've got involved.

Are you one of the ones who thought Assad should have handed his military over to Al-Nusra or Al-Sham?
No, I thought the UN should have done more to prevent the civilians being attacked in Syria, rather than Russia and the US arming each side.[/QUOTE]

Yes we preach human rights but we also facilitated torture: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...uks-role-in-kidnap-of-two-families-unravelled
Our US partners were far more involved in torture than us in Iraq but we turned a blind eye to the shit they got up to:

https://youtu.be/_ca1HsC6MH0

Different countries need different leadership models. It's not just Iraq that is the issue, it's the regime changing, warmongering, propaganda, and the demonisation of leaders that incites violence. Not to mention facilitating a supply of arms, training and financing of rebel groups against a sovereign state. We fanned the flames of destruction in Syria along with our allies Saudi, Qatar and the US, yet we claim it's Assad's fault for the state of the country and all the deaths.

For some strange reason we quickly labelled Assad a butcher but have remained very quiet on the the Clown Prince's Khashoggi Kebab incident.

With our democratic government we don't know what lunatic we will get next, and any damage they do they are never held accountable. With regards to the US regime a President is just used as a puppet spokesman.

We meddle in other countries elections and we fund the opposition to cause unrest. Our bad behaviour from democratically elected governments has caused more trouble in the world than Putin has because our leaders are just irresponsible part timers that come and go and chat shit.

You do realise that every angry Muslim Jihadi uses our foreign policy in the Middle East to recruit extremists and motivate terror attacks against us because we haven't held Blair accountable for his crimes against peace. If any other leader in the world did what he did we would be sending cruise missiles to their doorstep. We don't live in a democracy we live in a hypocrisy and that makes Muslims mad because there is no justice to be seen apart from the "justice" they carry out themselves.

Syria was supposed to be compensation package to the Sunni's for what they lost in Iraq. If the UN banned the supply of weapons to the rebels and didn't encourage them there would not have even been a war.
 

symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Yes, but it was our government that provided the 'proof' that Iraq had WOMD. Given that they definitely had those, against international law, it was right of the Tories to back the government.

The blame for not checking their facts lies with the government, not the MPs that subsequently supported them.

So the UN Chief weapons inspector Hans Blix who insisted there wasn't any WMD's didn't have any validity and we chose to ignore an expert on the ground ??? Lead by example, give the UN a middle finger.
 

Acker79

Members
Nov 15, 2008
30,171
Brighton
And investigative journalists, and their allies, that believe that protection for those that expose wrong-doing by governments is an important part of a functioning democracy?
That's who I am mainly seeing step up in (reluctant) defence.

'First they came for the egotistical, mysogynist ********s...'

Same. It seems a real fear from US commenters in particular that Trump is using this to set a precedent that allows him to attack the press ("the enemy of the people!") through courts.

The blame for not checking their facts lies with the government, not the MPs that subsequently supported them.

I can't agree with that. Not in the specific example, and not as a general policy. MPs shouldn't blindly accept whatever the government says. Any goverment will have an agenda. I expect* all MPs to check information/claims, seek alternative sources of information to see counter arguments etc. and make their choices based on all the information available to them, not the selection of information a government presents. With the WMD, people outside government were aware of the questions that hung over the supposed evidence, aware that the intelligence agencies of numerous countries felt the evidence was not strong enough at best, fraudulent at worst. They have no excuses, imo.

* as in I believe it is the responsibility of MPs to do so, not that I naively believe they are always doing it
 

jcdenton08

PROD with the PROD
Oct 17, 2008
6,340
He isn’t doing himself any favours on the PR front neither are his lawyers.

It’s all making him look like a cretinous manchild and his camp aren’t helping at all with that image.

Maybe he is a bit of a dick after all?
 

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
23,818
He isn’t doing himself any favours on the PR front neither are his lawyers.

It’s all making him look like a cretinous manchild and his camp aren’t helping at all with that image.

Maybe he is a bit of a dick after all?

You can be a dick and also release information that should be in the public domain.

A conspiracy theorist would say he was trying to grace favour with the Trump administration to "save" himself. He has been remarkably quiet on the Trump administration and Russia hasn't he ?

Ian Hislop appears to balanced journalist doesn't he ?

Worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/mar/01/julian-assange-jewish-conspiracy-comments
 

jcdenton08

PROD with the PROD
Oct 17, 2008
6,340
You can be a dick and also release information that should be in the public domain.

A conspiracy theorist would say he was trying to grace favour with the Trump administration to "save" himself. He has been remarkably quiet on the Trump administration and Russia hasn't he ?

Ian Hislop appears to balanced journalist doesn't he ?

Worth a read:

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2011/mar/01/julian-assange-jewish-conspiracy-comments

Hang on there, I supported Wikileaks and think actually it was a good thing for transparency.
My point was PR wise he is coming off really badly right now, and as he is so intrinsically linked to Wikileaks, his reported personality and behaviour is undoing good work that was done.

The problem in my mind is that his alleged behaviour has not been challenged by his counsel and spokespeople. He was flinging shit against a wall? His counsel says he had an upset stomach. It’s making him appear insane, regardless of any good work that was done.

A case like this depends on public goodwill. That is fading for people like me, let alone what the average punter thinks about Wikileaks. He’s not coming off like a political prisoner. He’s coming off like a ****.
 

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
23,818
Hang on there, I supported Wikileaks and think actually it was a good thing for transparency.
My point was PR wise he is coming off really badly right now, and as he is so intrinsically linked to Wikileaks, his reported personality and behaviour is undoing good work that was done.

The problem in my mind is that his alleged behaviour has not been challenged by his counsel and spokespeople. He was flinging shit against a wall? His counsel says he had an upset stomach. It’s making him appear insane, regardless of any good work that was done.

A case like this depends on public goodwill. That is fading for people like me, let alone what the average punter thinks about Wikileaks. He’s not coming off like a political prisoner. He’s coming off like a ****.

I agree with you, not sure what you are reacting against. I suspect that being exposed to all the bad things about democracy he has turned against democracy itself.

I was attempting to be "ironic" with the conspiracy theory comment. It rings very true doesn't it ? Get myself off the hook by gracing favour with the potential new administration and drop a bombshell to help him get into government.

His PR has been rubbish for years and it's worth digging out some interviews with ex-colleagues. As you say, it's ok to support the good he did, whilst at the same time separating that from the rape allegations he ran away from and his dubious Jewish conspiracy theories if Hislop is to be believed.

I'd tend to believe Hislop.
 


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