Joe mason to Bournemouth

[El Presidente]

Agree , FFP is a dead duck because the FL/FA will not have the guts to target a big club. More likely they will pick on some poor 2nd division team

The rules are different in L2

 

[Triggaaar]

The losses were over £9 million last year and that was with no depreciation on the stadium.

Who says we're going to include depreciation of the stadium in our P&L?

Add that on, along with the signings of PIG, Bruno, Crofts, Ulloa, Bridge, Hammond and Upson

Well take off Buckley, CMS, Vicente (who I assume were all included in the £9m loss), and take off Noone, whom we sold.

add in that we were still winding down some League One commercial deals

I think you mean take off - whatever League One commercial deals we still had, they'd be less than we had the year before - so the change in commercial deals, compared to the previous year, will be a positive one.

revenue is up about £1.5 million for the season from higher attendances.

Yep, that helps too.

 

[fosters headband]

Who says we're going to include depreciation of the stadium in our P&L?

Well take off Buckley, CMS, Vicente (who I assume were all included in the £9m loss), and take off Noone, whom we sold.

I think you mean take off - whatever League One commercial deals we still had, they'd be less than we had the year before - so the change in commercial deals, compared to the previous year, will be a positive one.
Yep, that helps too.

I have to say I do not understand all this financial stuff and take the word of Barber when he says that we lost £8 mill last year and he projected the same for this year, but he was working hard to bring this down. I then see posts claiming the club will announce eye watering losses!!
So does this mean that Barber is failing even though transport costs were targeted, redundancies were made and the price of season tickets raised.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

How many players will sign a contract with a relegation clause in it ?
The players and agents have the upper hand unfortunately .

Agree with you SE20,but IF all clubs had that written in their contracts the agents would not be able to dictate the terms..

 

[Weststander]

Barber took on many costs that couldn't be changed. A great example.

Poyet spent £3.25m on CMS. Under mandatory accounting rules, that fee has to be amortised over the length of the contract. Say 4 years, that's a £812,500 hit to the profit and loss account annually.
Then if his wages were £12,000 per week, add 13.8% employers national insurance and multiply by 52 weeks, and that gives £710,000 payroll costs on CMS per annum.

A grand total of £1.5m per each set of annual accounts within payroll costs, for just one player!
A chief exec joining after such transfers has no scope to alter the effect of this, even years later on the accounts.

You can see how the losses got out of control under Poyet, as TB generously and personally backed him. With FL FFP arriving, Poyet started paving the way for his exit with the interest in the Reading job and intermittent whinging.

 

[BensGrandad]

Agree with you SE20,but IF all clubs had that written in their contracts the agents would not be able to dictate the terms..

If the FL or preferably the FA made it a rule that it had to be included in all players contracts agents woukd be f....d and have to agree to it on behalf of their clients.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Agree with you SE20,but IF all clubs had that written in their contracts the agents would not be able to dictate the terms..

All clubs may agree to do it initially but then one club will leave them out to get an upper hand in negotiations on signing a player and then that will escalate back to square one. I don't think you could legally enforce clubs to have the clause in however sensible it would be.

 

[fosters headband]

Barber took on many costs that couldn't be changed. A great example.

Poyet spent £3.25m on CMS. Under mandatory accounting rules, that fee has to be amortised over the length of the contract. Say 4 years, that's a £812,500 hit to the profit and loss account annually.
Then if his wages were £12,000 per week, add 13.8% employers national insurance and multiply by 52 weeks, and that gives £710,000 payroll costs on CMS per annum.

A grand total of £1.5m per each set of annual accounts within payroll costs, for just one player!
A chief exec joining after such transfers has no scope to alter the effect of this, even years later on the accounts.

You can see how the losses got out of control under Poyet, as TB generously and personally backed him. With FL FFP arriving, Poyet started paving the way for his exit with the interest in the Reading job and intermittent whinging.

Again I am sorry that I am not more financially astute, but surely Barber last year would have been aware of these facts before saying he would be working to reduce the £8mill year on year debt, but now we are hearing that the debts may have gone through the roof. So again I ask, if so is he failing in his promises?

 

[El Presidente]

Again I am sorry that I am not more financially astute, but surely Barber last year would have been aware of these facts before saying he would be working to reduce the £8mill year on year debt, but now we are hearing that the debts may have gone through the roof. So again I ask, if so is he failing in his promises?

No, FFP losses and accounting ones are based on different numbers.

 

[fosters headband]

No, FFP losses and accounting ones are based on different numbers.

I am really lost now . So are you saying the club can lose more money, but he can succeed within FFP?

 

[El Presidente]

I am really lost now . So are you saying the club can lose more money, but he can succeed within FFP?

Yes.

I'm only guessing on the numbers too, albeit starting with last years figures, and may (not for the first time) end up with major egg on face.

 

[fosters headband]

Yes.

I'm only guessing on the numbers too, albeit starting with last years figures, and may (not for the first time) end up with major egg on face.

Well thanks for the replies, I think I will just give up on trying to understand it all.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Shall I separate the posts about FFP in to a new thread?

 

[Weststander]

Only asking, but have the club definitely stated/indicated that the 2012/13 and 2013/14 audited losses will show an increase year-on-year?

Until this thread, I thought they were steady high losses for 2011/12 and 2012/13 (the latter not published yet), and should show a fall for 2013/14 due to measures taken eg transport, change of caterers, redundancies, and Poyet was not allowed to blow so much on wages & transfers.

 

[drew]

Barber took on many costs that couldn't be changed. A great example.

Poyet spent £3.25m on CMS. Under mandatory accounting rules, that fee has to be amortised over the length of the contract. Say 4 years, that's a £812,500 hit to the profit and loss account annually.
Then if his wages were £12,000 per week, add 13.8% employers national insurance and multiply by 52 weeks, and that gives £710,000 payroll costs on CMS per annum.

A grand total of £1.5m per each set of annual accounts within payroll costs, for just one player!
A chief exec joining after such transfers has no scope to alter the effect of this, even years later on the accounts.

You can see how the losses got out of control under Poyet, as TB generously and personally backed him. With FL FFP arriving, Poyet started paving the way for his exit with the interest in the Reading job and intermittent whinging.

Don't quite understand the point you are making as that would apply to players we buy now and of course bought last year, such as Ulloa.

 

[El Presidente]

Only asking, but have the club definitely stated/indicated that the 2012/13 and 2013/14 audited losses will show an increase year-on-year?

Until this thread, I thought they were steady high losses for 2011/12 and 2012/13 (the latter not published yet), and should show a fall for 2013/14 due to measures taken eg transport, change of caterers, redundancies, and Poyet was not allowed to blow so much on wages & transfers.

Nope, although I think your sums sound right

 

[Sheebo]

Poyet spent £3.25m on CMS

Did he? What were the criteria that needed to be met for the fee to rise 750k?

 

[edna krabappel]

Shall I separate the posts about FFP in to a new thread?

Nah, it's only Vulture who's moaning.

 

[edna krabappel]

Yes.

I'm only guessing on the numbers too, albeit starting with last years figures, and may (not for the first time) end up with major egg on face.

I have a hunch that you won't.

 

[ali jenkins]

If the FL don't impose punishment or it's only a token gesture, will any clubs who have followed the rules be able to appeal it or seek legal proceedings?

If we miss out on promotion because we've followed the rules and the team that beat us to it are proved to be breaking the rules but not punished, then surely we would have a decent case?