[Football] January transfer window affecting The Premier

[Kalimantan Gull]

tl:dr.

Look, I don't think any of us really care who plays for what country, we get they're entitled to under the rules, certainly we don't care enough to read such overlong screeds.

But if players can choose their country at will, and FA's take advantage of it, just don't get pissed of at them if they switch. Which is what you've done here

 

[zefarelly]

I can't play football but I wish the Irish would try and poach me. I so want one of their really useful passports.

Me too, loads of Irish in my family tree but nothing since my great grandparents!

 

[Mancgull]

Be really gutted if Grealish picked up a '2 week niggle' tonight.

Villa are playing well so far. Hopefully we'll have their focus on the 2nd leg after this game.

 

[Easy 10]

Nope - his new agent told him that he could ask for a higher wage if he declared for England, that they could add in bonuses for England appearances and he would command a higher transfer fee (and more money) if he was an English international rather than playing for Ireland - it came out in the wash at the time. He was 19 at the time - and five years later he still hasn't played for England. Same thing happened with Rice.

I like that you have the inside track on the discussions between JG and his agent, but his transfer fee and wages would be driven by Villa's valuation of him, and whatever the buying club were prepared to pay him. Being an England international (as opposed to Ireland) might have been more of a factor 20 years ago, but once you're on the PL megabucks carousel, its really not so much of a driving factor. Zaha plays for Ivory Coast and the GOONS are demanding £80m for him FFS.

Again - if this was the case - and all the evidence is that it was not - he still hasn't played for England five years later.

He's 24, and the last 3 seasons he's spent dossing in the Championship, so its hardly that much of a shock he's not been selected yet. But off the back of the first half of this season in the PL, he's due.

Misunderstanding of Irish underage football - some of the best young talent in England at the moment are Irish born players - whether they all come through or not, only time will tell. The deadwood will be gone by next summer.

Not many players would pick their International allegiances based on "jam tomorrow". Its a short career - if JG wants to play in Euros and World Cups, he's already got a chance of being involved THIS SUMMER. Why would he hang around in the hope that the Irish kids are good enough in 2, 4, 6 years time ? Get real. Connolly's decent, but he's a long way off from firing the R of I to a tournament.

He is English now - for four years it was his dream to play for Ireland - kissing the shirt and all that jazz. Like I said before - I don't have a problem with Grealish declaring for England - it would be nice if he was honest about the motive though. And there is no guarantee that he will ever appear in an English shirt - 5 years after switching he has all of 7 England U21 caps (and by the way - there is no guarantee that he would be in the Irish team either - now or in the future). I do regard him as a better player than Rice (despite all the hype about Rice - I think he is quite limited as a footballer) - but Grealish still looks like he has a lot of maturing to do. There has been a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about another player as well - Nathan Redmond - nobody in Ireland wanted him to declare, he was regarded as English. Same type of shenanigans have gone on with Patrick Bamford (who has played for both countries at underage). All of this stuff is a legacy of the history of the relationship between the two countries.

You seem to know a lot about his 'hopes and dreams', I'm not sure where that personal info comes from. But players will always gravitate to whatever is best for their careers - that basically goes without saying, we all know it and understand it. There's no guarantees over his England selection, but after being out of the picture with England (due to his age and the fact he was in the second division), he's come of age, developed as a player, and has spent the last 6 months PROVING he is a PL player and worthy of being in an England squad. He's backed himself, and it hasn't happened yet, but keep doing what he's doing and he'll be impossible to ignore much longer.

He's ditched Ireland - big deal. He's english, and he feels good enough now to play for a far superior national team that WILL compete in Finals tournaments. Simple as that, and I'd love to see him in that white No10 shirt this summer. He's easily my pick between him, Mount and Maddison.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Said I wouldn't sidetrack this anymore - but I feel compelled to come back at this

But players will always gravitate to whatever is best for their careers - that basically goes without saying, we all know it and understand it. There's no guarantees over his England selection, but after being out of the picture with England (due to his age and the fact he was in the second division), he's come of age, developed as a player, and has spent the last 6 months PROVING he is a PL player and worthy of being in an England squad. He's backed himself, and it hasn't happened yet, but keep doing what he's doing and he'll be impossible to ignore much longer.

I would agree that many, even most, players go with what ever is best for their career - or actually their career earnings - it is one of the downsides of football dominated by money.

He's ditched Ireland - big deal. He's english, and he feels good enough now to play for a far superior national team that WILL compete in Finals tournaments. Simple as that, and I'd love to see him in that white No10 shirt this summer. He's easily my pick between him, Mount and Maddison.

Again - I don't have a problem with Grealish playing for England (if he does) - but there is an incredible tinge of arrogance in your comment. A country with a population 55million to pick from is a 'far superior national team' than a country with less than 5million. Furthermore - if that is the basis of national allegiance among players then it is far more cynical that even I believe.

England are not a far superior football team - they just have a bigger pool of players. Ireland were the first non-UK team to beat England on English soil - an English team that contained the likes of Tom Finney, Billy Wright and Wilf Mannion (both of whose parents were Irish immigrants) and an Irish team that contained three League of Ireland players (two of whom had just transferred to English clubs but hadn't played for them). England have played Ireland 7 times in the last 35 years and have never won. In competitive games between the two countries the record is Ireland 1W - England 2Ws and 5Ds - and the two games England won were in 1980 and 1957. Hardly the record of a 'far superior football nation team'.

You state that England 'WILL compete in Finals tournaments' - England didn't even qualify for the world cup for 20 years from 1962-1982. They were hosts in 1966 and holders in 1970 and didn't qualify in 1974 and 1978. Didn't qualify again in 1994 - and didn't qualify for the Euros in 1972, 1976, 1984 or 2008. In fact it has only since the competitions have been expanded to more teams that England have managed to qualify consistently. Time will tell if the 'WILL compete in Finals tournaments' - because it has been hit and miss for the most part over the years.

Since Ireland first qualified for a major tournament in 1988 the team has qualified for 3 world cups and 3 Euro championships (and they have lost in the play-offs on 5 occasions as well) - not bad for a country of 5million people that is a 'waste of talent'. There have been periods over the years when Irish players played a key (even dominant) role in the best teams in England (the Liverpool team of the 1980s that had 4 Irish players and 1/2 occasional English players) - and that could well happen again in the not too distant future if the Irish kids develop to their potential.

At the moment England has better players than Ireland (and a much bigger pool to pick from) - yet if the two countries were to meet tomorrow I wouldn't back against the Irish team. A bit of humility wouldn't go astray - otherwise it has a habit of coming back and biting you in the ass.

Look, I don't think any of us really care who plays for what country, we get they're entitled to under the rules, certainly we don't care enough to read such overlong screeds.

Nobody is asking you to read them

But if players can choose their country at will, and FA's take advantage of it, just don't get pissed of at them if they switch. Which is what you've done here

Again - don't have a problem with that - just a bit of honesty when it happens.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

So - back on topic

You’re new to this aren’t you. It is very rare for anything of consequence to happen in a January window for the Albion. Ulloa is the last one that stands out to me and that was fecking years ago.

If anything happens it’s likely to be at the tail end when we’ll get someone nobody else wanted.

Whether Brighton buys a player or not in January is not the only thing that will determine the outcome of the season - this season is going to be very tight in the bottom half - and if other clubs improve it will have an impact on Brighton.

 

[Easy 10]

I would agree that many, even most, players go with what ever is best for their career - or actually their career earnings - it is one of the downsides of football dominated by money.

Many, even most HUMAN BEINGS go with whatever is best for their careers. Why should footballers be any different ?

Again - I don't have a problem with Grealish playing for England (if he does) - but there is an incredible tinge of arrogance in your comment. A country with a population 55million to pick from is a 'far superior national team' than a country with less than 5million. Furthermore - if that is the basis of national allegiance among players then it is far more cynical that even I believe.

Population is an advantage, but its not the be-all and end-all. China have a population of 1.3bn - where the hell are they on the football map ? Holland have a population of 16m, yet they've been superior to England pretty much all my life. It has nothing to do with arrogance though. At this moment in time, England (as usual) are far better than Ireland, and will be making bigger waves than Ireland on the world stage in the immediate future - and Grealish wants to be a part of it. Why shouldn't he ??

England are not a far superior football team - they just have a bigger pool of players. Ireland were the first non-UK team to beat England on English soil - an English team that contained the likes of Tom Finney, Billy Wright and Wilf Mannion (both of whose parents were Irish immigrants) and an Irish team that contained three League of Ireland players (two of whom had just transferred to English clubs but hadn't played for them). England have played Ireland 7 times in the last 35 years and have never won. In competitive games between the two countries the record is Ireland 1W - England 2Ws and 5Ds - and the two games England won were in 1980 and 1957. Hardly the record of a 'far superior football nation team'.

You state that England 'WILL compete in Finals tournaments' - England didn't even qualify for the world cup for 20 years from 1962-1982. They were hosts in 1966 and holders in 1970 and didn't qualify in 1974 and 1978. Didn't qualify again in 1994 - and didn't qualify for the Euros in 1972, 1976, 1984 or 2008. In fact it has only since the competitions have been expanded to more teams that England have managed to qualify consistently. Time will tell if the 'WILL compete in Finals tournaments' - because it has been hit and miss for the most part over the years.

Since Ireland first qualified for a major tournament in 1988 the team has qualified for 3 world cups and 3 Euro championships (and they have lost in the play-offs on 5 occasions as well) - not bad for a country of 5million people that is a 'waste of talent'. There have been periods over the years when Irish players played a key (even dominant) role in the best teams in England (the Liverpool team of the 1980s that had 4 Irish players and 1/2 occasional English players) - and that could well happen again in the not too distant future if the Irish kids develop to their potential.

At the moment England has better players than Ireland (and a much bigger pool to pick from) - yet if the two countries were to meet tomorrow I wouldn't back against the Irish team. A bit of humility wouldn't go astray - otherwise it has a habit of coming back and biting you in the ass.

A long-winded history lesson, and excuses again on populations. And sure, Ireland have had their moments against England in one-off games in the past. But why on earth should Grealish give a flying frig about all that ? RIGHT NOW, England are pretty decent and will be qualifying for tournaments - they have done so for years now, with relative ease. We've not missed one since 2008. Ireland haven't even made it to a World Cup since 2002 - they've missed the last FOUR. They made Euro 2012 and 2016, but prior to that had missed the last FIVE and have now missed out on 2020 as well.

The notion that Grealish's decision to play for England instead of Ireland purely for £££ is, I'm afraid, utter bobbins. The lad wants to play for HIS country, in tournaments. He's unlikely to get that with his foster country, so he's nailed his colours to England. Nobody except you seems to blame him.

 

[Albion Dan]

You’re new to this aren’t you. It is very rare for anything of consequence to happen in a January window for the Albion. Ulloa is the last one that stands out to me and that was fecking years ago.

If anything happens it’s likely to be at the tail end when we’ll get someone nobody else wanted.

Didn’t we sign Knockaert in January? That turned out quite well.

 

[rogersix]

Really - of the 13 players on the pitch for Ireland that day - 6 were born in Ireland (technically Paul McGrath was born in England - his mother lived in Ireland and was in England when she gave birth) - of the remaining players -
Chris Morris - Irish mother and he held dual citizenship from the day he was born
Mick McCarthy - Irish father and he represented Ireland at underage
Chris Hughton - Irish mother and try telling him he is not Irish.
Ray Houghton - born in Scotland - Irish father from Donegal
Kevin Sheedy - born in Wales, Irish father and he only ever held Irish citizenship
Tony Galvin - an Irish grandfather - didn't even know he could play for Ireland until he talked to Chris Hughton
John Aldridge - an Irish grandmother - and again - try telling him he is not Irish.

Of the above - none played for their country of birth at underage level except for Galvin who played once for the English U-18s.

In the English team the same day was one John Barnes - born in Jamaica to a Jamaican mother and a Trinidadian father - his father was a Jamaican international and was also manager of the Jamaican football team - Barnes had absolutely zero connection with England and didn't even set foot in the country until he was 13 after his father was posted to the Jamaican High Commission in London. And Barnes regards himself as Jamaican - not English. And he is not the only Jamaican that the English have grabbed. At least all the Irish players had Irish heritage and regarded themselves as Irish - even if they weren't born in the country.

And what difference does it make - according to Easy - none of them would have been good enough to play for England anyway because if they were, their talent would have been wasted if they opted for Ireland - except that the beat England.

Now - in order to play for Ireland you must be entitled to an Irish passport and that means that a parent or grandparent must have been born in Ireland. Many European teams have players who have no connection with the country. The French team that won the world cup in 1998 and the 2000 Euros - many of them weren't born in France and had no connection to the country and others who were born there do not consider themselves French. This stuff has been going on a long-long time and in all sports - hell - the captain of the English cricket team is an Irish guy, born in Dublin who played for Ireland for four years before switching to England.

turn it in you racist c unt

 

[rogersix]

Nope - his new agent told him that he could ask for a higher wage if he declared for England, that they could add in bonuses for England appearances and he would command a higher transfer fee (and more money) if he was an English international rather than playing for Ireland - it came out in the wash at the time. He was 19 at the time - and five years later he still hasn't played for England. Same thing happened with Rice.


Again - if this was the case - and all the evidence is that it was not - he still hasn't played for England five years later.


Misunderstanding of Irish underage football - some of the best young talent in England at the moment are Irish born players - whether they all come through or not, only time will tell. The deadwood will be gone by next summer.


This I can absolutely agree with - and there will be a massive clear-out of the bureaucrats here as well.


He is English now - for four years it was his dream to play for Ireland - kissing the shirt and all that jazz. Like I said before - I don't have a problem with Grealish declaring for England - it would be nice if he was honest about the motive though. And there is no guarantee that he will ever appear in an English shirt - 5 years after switching he has all of 7 England U21 caps (and by the way - there is no guarantee that he would be in the Irish team either - now or in the future). I do regard him as a better player than Rice (despite all the hype about Rice - I think he is quite limited as a footballer) - but Grealish still looks like he has a lot of maturing to do. There has been a lot of to-ing and fro-ing about another player as well - Nathan Redmond - nobody in Ireland wanted him to declare, he was regarded as English. Same type of shenanigans have gone on with Patrick Bamford (who has played for both countries at underage). All of this stuff is a legacy of the history of the relationship between the two countries.

 

[rogersix]

True - my fault - I was the one who took a swipe at Grealish - back on topic.

8 days in - nothing of consequence.

wot?

you? no,

not again

you?

no....... never, i won't av it i tells ya

 

[Pavilionaire]

Indeed.

They've already lost McGinn probably for the rest of the season. If Grealish gets crocked then they are royally stuffed. A disinterested Drinkwater will make little to no difference to their chances of staying up.

BTW, Grealish should be a SHOO-IN for the next England squad. He pisses all over Mason Mount, and although I like Maddison, he's more dynamic than him as well for that No10 role IMO.

Temperament. You can just see him getting sent off in a big match, a first yellow for retaliation and a second yellow for an inoccuous foul.

 

[Easy 10]

Temperament. You can just see him getting sent off in a big match, a first yellow for retaliation and a second yellow for an inoccuous foul.

Seems to average about half a dozen bookings a season which ain't bad for a CM, and his last red (for a 2nd yellow) was 2 years ago. Not exactly looneytunes. I wouldn't be concerned about his temperament, especially considering he gets kicked from pillar to post most weeks, and just cracks on (unlike a certain other player, who never stops grizzling to the ref, the press, to anyone who'll listen).

 

[hans kraay fan club]

. They made Euro 2012 and 2016, but prior to that had missed the last FIVE and have now missed out on 2020 as well.

Not yet they haven't.

Play-offs innit

 

[Easy 10]

Not yet they haven't.

Play-offs innit

True - away at Slovakia, then if they get through that, away at the winners between NI / Bosnia Herzosaltanvinegar.

Can't say I overly fancy their chances, but maybe all these amazing talented youngsters [MENTION=33329]Jolly Red Giant[/MENTION] thinks Grealish should be joining up with will actually come through for them.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Population is an advantage, but its not the be-all and end-all. China have a population of 1.3bn - where the hell are they on the football map ? Holland have a population of 16m, yet they've been superior to England pretty much all my life. It has nothing to do with arrogance though.

Soccer has never been a popular sport in China - and despite a fortune being pumped into it in the recent period it is still way down the list in terms of participation. In Holland soccer is by far and away the most popular sport in the country (and they have a cultural tradition of promoting soccer as a a sport of skill and teamwork. Soccer is by far and away the most popular sport in England.

In Ireland soccer has to compete directly with gaelic football and hurling - sports played by hundreds of thousands. It is quite remarkable that Ireland has done as well as it has given the competition they face from gaelic sports on the island.

At this moment in time, England (as usual) are far better than Ireland, and will be making bigger waves than Ireland on the world stage in the immediate future - and Grealish wants to be a part of it. Why shouldn't he ??

Grealish declared for England a couple of weeks after England were beaten by Iceland in the Euros in 2016

A long-winded history lesson, and excuses again on populations. And sure, Ireland have had their moments against England in one-off games in the past. But why on earth should Grealish give a flying frig about all that ? RIGHT NOW, England are pretty decent and will be qualifying for tournaments - they have done so for years now, with relative ease. We've not missed one since 2008. Ireland haven't even made it to a World Cup since 2002 - they've missed the last FOUR. They made Euro 2012 and 2016, but prior to that had missed the last FIVE and have now missed out on 2020 as well.

Again - Grealish declared for England four years ago - a couple of weeks after they were beaten by Iceland. Grealish was born in Birmingham and started playing gaelic football in Birmingham before he started playing soccer (both sides of his family have Irish heritage.

Again - I don't have a problem with him playing for England - however -

The notion that Grealish's decision to play for England instead of Ireland purely for £££ is, I'm afraid, utter bobbins. The lad wants to play for HIS country, in tournaments. He's unlikely to get that with his foster country, so he's nailed his colours to England. Nobody except you seems to blame him.

In 2015 Grealish signed on with a new agent - Jonathan Barnett - Barnett is also Gareth Bale's agent. When Bale signed on with Barnett as a 15 year old, Barnett attempted to get Bale to declare for England. Just after Grealish signed with Barnett, the agent spoke at the Soccerex Convention in Manchester and stated about Bale that “He could have qualified [for England] through his grandmother and I tell you that it has cost him millions and millions of pounds." in sponsorship deals. Barrett wasn't going to let the same thing happen with Grealish.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Can't say I overly fancy their chances, but maybe all these amazing talented youngsters [MENTION=33329]Jolly Red Giant[/MENTION] thinks Grealish should be joining up with will actually come through for them.

Can't see any of the kids playing - McCarthy will stick with the 'tried and trusted' - although he has said that Adam Idah will be in the squad. McCarthy is due to be replaced after the Euros (qualify or not) by Stephen Kenny who is the current Irish U21 manager. There will be a major clear out of the Irish squad after next summer - and the kids will be brought in.

 

[SeagullDubai]

Soccer has never been a popular sport in China - and despite a fortune being pumped into it in the recent period it is still way down the list in terms of participation. In Holland soccer is by far and away the most popular sport in the country (and they have a cultural tradition of promoting soccer as a a sport of skill and teamwork. Soccer is by far and away the most popular sport in England.

In Ireland soccer has to compete directly with gaelic football and hurling - sports played by hundreds of thousands. It is quite remarkable that Ireland has done as well as it has given the competition they face from gaelic sports on the island.


Grealish declared for England a couple of weeks after England were beaten by Iceland in the Euros in 2016


Again - Grealish declared for England four years ago - a couple of weeks after they were beaten by Iceland. Grealish was born in Birmingham and started playing gaelic football in Birmingham before he started playing soccer (both sides of his family have Irish heritage.

Again - I don't have a problem with him playing for England - however -


In 2015 Grealish signed on with a new agent - Jonathan Barnett - Barnett is also Gareth Bale's agent. When Bale signed on with Barnett as a 15 year old, Barnett attempted to get Bale to declare for England. Just after Grealish signed with Barnett, the agent spoke at the Soccerex Convention in Manchester and stated about Bale that “He could have qualified [for England] through his grandmother and I tell you that it has cost him millions and millions of pounds." in sponsorship deals. Barrett wasn't going to let the same thing happen with Grealish.

What he means us to that it cost me millions of pounds.

Sent from my MI 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Easy 10]

Soccer has never been a popular sport in China - and despite a fortune being pumped into it in the recent period it is still way down the list in terms of participation. In Holland soccer is by far and away the most popular sport in the country (and they have a cultural tradition of promoting soccer as a a sport of skill and teamwork. Soccer is by far and away the most popular sport in England.

In Ireland soccer has to compete directly with gaelic football and hurling - sports played by hundreds of thousands. It is quite remarkable that Ireland has done as well as it has given the competition they face from gaelic sports on the island.


Grealish declared for England a couple of weeks after England were beaten by Iceland in the Euros in 2016


Again - Grealish declared for England four years ago - a couple of weeks after they were beaten by Iceland. Grealish was born in Birmingham and started playing gaelic football in Birmingham before he started playing soccer (both sides of his family have Irish heritage.

Again - I don't have a problem with him playing for England - however -


In 2015 Grealish signed on with a new agent - Jonathan Barnett - Barnett is also Gareth Bale's agent. When Bale signed on with Barnett as a 15 year old, Barnett attempted to get Bale to declare for England. Just after Grealish signed with Barnett, the agent spoke at the Soccerex Convention in Manchester and stated about Bale that “He could have qualified [for England] through his grandmother and I tell you that it has cost him millions and millions of pounds." in sponsorship deals. Barrett wasn't going to let the same thing happen with Grealish.

And we all take agents words as gospel of course.

Look, this has gotten really boring. I don't really care when it was he decided he wanted to play for England instead of Ireland - it really matters not a jot. Maybe he realised he'd set his sight too low - he's far, far better than the kid he was 5 years ago, and this season he's proving that he's worthy of a place in the England squad. His talent would be wasted turning out for Ireland, thats obvious. With England he'll get tournaments, with Ireland he probably won't. Simple as.

If you want to believe its purely about his wallet, then crack on chap.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

And we all take agents words as gospel of course.

That is your choice - you claimed that it wasn't about money - I produced evidence that it probably was.

Look, this has gotten really boring. I don't really care when it was he decided he wanted to play for England instead of Ireland - it really matters not a jot. Maybe he realised he'd set his sight too low - he's far, far better than the kid he was 5 years ago, and this season he's proving that he's worthy of a place in the England squad. His talent would be wasted turning out for Ireland, thats obvious. With England he'll get tournaments, with Ireland he probably won't. Simple as.

If you want to believe its purely about his wallet, then crack on chap.

You are right - it has got a bit tedious. You can believe that he switched allegiance for altruistic reasons if you want.

As for wasting talent - there are many English born players who declared for Ireland and other countries and I dare you to tell them to their face that they wasted (or are wasting) their talent. It really is quite an obnoxious superior attitude.