[Football] James McClean

[Dave Fishwick]

Yep, I think he's been quite restrained considering. I genuinely don't understand the bile he receives. Ireland has been shat on repeatedly by the English over centuries.

He has shown by running to the authorities every time that the chants wind him up - why wouldn't opposing fans try and get under his skin and try and get him fired up and possibly sent off?

I can't believe Wrexham have actually paid money for the guy, Wigan are in a bad way financially I'd have thought they could definitely negotiate them down

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

He has shown by running to the authorities every time that the chants wind him up - why wouldn't opposing fans try and get under his skin and try and get him fired up and possibly sent off?

I can't believe Wrexham have actually paid money for the guy, Wigan are in a bad way financially I'd have thought they could definitely negotiate them down

Judging by the delay of wages being paid countless times at Wigan, I’m sure I read somewhere there was a threshold for breach of contract and players could walk away on free transfer?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

he really is a prick. all those principled stands he took against the English flag. DON'T PLAY FOR AN ENGLISH CLUB THEN !

And yet, if Hendo decides to take an equivalent stance in Saudi for his new club, over LGBTQ+, he'd be applauded in England.

(Then he'd be fired, though, obvs. Which actually makes our Irishman plucky as well as principled. It's just that he's batting for the other team over a 'war' that ended some time ago. Apparently. So we English have a right to boo him, and boo some more. Boo. BOO!).

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

This thread demonstrates the point I was making on the Aaron Connolly thread about the fact that sport and politics cannot be separated.

McClean and his family have received countless abuse and threats over his refusal to wear the poppy. But this is based on a reactionary gut reaction to the actions of one individual based on another individuals culture and tradition.

McClean comes from the Creggan in Derry - a slum housing estate where the Unionist controlled city council dumped Catholic families into overcrowded homes in the 1940s, 50s and 1960s - home to about 3,000 men, women and children - 98.8% of them Catholics. It was and is one of the poorest and most deprived areas in NI and the North was/is the most deprived part of the UK. It was one of the areas where the embryonic civil rights movement emerged (and the civil rights movement in NI was not about a united Ireland - but about Catholics being treated equally as all other citizens in the UK).

From the start of the Troubles (and long before it) the Creggan was subjected to widespread violence and repression from the RIC, the UDR, the B-Specials, loyalist paramilitaries and the British Army. For 25 years the residents of the Creggan faced violence from the British Army (and retaliated to that violence) on an almost daily occurrence. In 1972 British paratroopers opened fire on a protest in Derry, murdering 14 people and wounding another 13. Every single family in the Creggan was affected by this atrocity - either a member of their extended family was a victim, a neighbour was a victim or a friend was a victim. It was a devastating event that dominated the lives of the people of Derry (and particularly the Creggan and the Bogside) ever since. If James McClean wore a poppy he would have been ostracised from his community - he would never have been able to set foot in the Creggan again - the family that he still has living in the Creggan would be ostracised. The Creggan made James McClean who he is - and there is no way he could ever wear a poppy.

Now - the next question is why are football players wearing a poppy on their jerseys every year - because of politics - and specifically the politics of British imperialism. Millions of British soldiers have died or been wounded in countless wars - ordinary working class people and the poor - and most of those wars were wars of conquest designed to line the pockets of the British aristocracy and rich elites. Once again - politics and sport are not separate.

The overwhelming majority of people in Britain who wear the poppy do so in remembrance of the people who died in a British uniform - not in remembrance of the wars of conquest. It is emotional, it is cultural and it happens because the vast majority of families in Britain have someone who served in the British military at some point in their ancestry. I acknowledge the right and dignity of those who wish to wear the poppy in remembrance of those individuals. Personally, even if I was British, I could not wear one because of my view that wars are the result of a class based society - but I will defend the rights of others to do so. But people in Britain need to remember that there are hundreds of millions of people all over the world who were subjugated by the same British military - and they are likely to take a different view.

By all means put the poppy on a football jersey - by all means let the players wear that jersey - but if some players choose not to wear a poppy they should not be vilified and abused for not doing so - their families should not be abused and threatened - and their views should be treated with the same respect that is expected by those who do wear the poppy.

Remember this - the British Legion have supported James McClean in his decision not to wear the poppy and have condemned the treatment he has received. Furthermore, James McClean is not the only footballer who refuses to wear a poppy. Nemanja Matic refused to wear the poppy - as a child growing up he has memories of British planes bombing his home in Serbia in 1999. Yet Matic has never received any abuse for taking the personal decision not to wear a poppy.

Mutual respect would go a long way in this situation - wear the poppy with dignity if you want to - but respect the rights of others as well if they choose not to.

I will finish with a quote - In 2015, Harry Leslie Smith, a 92-year-old World War II RAF veteran, said he’d stopped wearing a poppy because “the spirit of my generation has been hijacked” by latter-day politicians to “sell dubious wars” in Afghanistan and Iraq. He argued that the Royal British Legion does much good work for ex-service personnel, but that if politicians “want war they must be prepared to pay for the consequences and not leave it to charity”.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I think it's worth pointing out that the Civil Rights movement in Northern Ireland came after that in the USA. Anyone growing up in NI is entitled to feel bitter if they were on the receiving end of government sanctioned abuse.

 

[CaergybiGull]

This thread demonstrates the point I was making on the Aaron Connolly thread about the fact that sport and politics cannot be separated.

McClean and his family have received countless abuse and threats over his refusal to wear the poppy. But this is based on a reactionary gut reaction to the actions of one individual based on another individuals culture and tradition.

McClean comes from the Creggan in Derry - a slum housing estate where the Unionist controlled city council dumped Catholic families into overcrowded homes in the 1940s, 50s and 1960s - home to about 3,000 men, women and children - 98.8% of them Catholics. It was and is one of the poorest and most deprived areas in NI and the North was/is the most deprived part of the UK. It was one of the areas where the embryonic civil rights movement emerged (and the civil rights movement in NI was not about a united Ireland - but about Catholics being treated equally as all other citizens in the UK).

From the start of the Troubles (and long before it) the Creggan was subjected to widespread violence and repression from the RIC, the UDR, the B-Specials, loyalist paramilitaries and the British Army. For 25 years the residents of the Creggan faced violence from the British Army (and retaliated to that violence) on an almost daily occurrence. In 1972 British paratroopers opened fire on a protest in Derry, murdering 14 people and wounding another 13. Every single family in the Creggan was affected by this atrocity - either a member of their extended family was a victim, a neighbour was a victim or a friend was a victim. It was a devastating event that dominated the lives of the people of Derry (and particularly the Creggan and the Bogside) ever since. If James McClean wore a poppy he would have been ostracised from his community - he would never have been able to set foot in the Creggan again - the family that he still has living in the Creggan would be ostracised. The Creggan made James McClean who he is - and there is no way he could ever wear a poppy.

Now - the next question is why are football players wearing a poppy on their jerseys every year - because of politics - and specifically the politics of British imperialism. Millions of British soldiers have died or been wounded in countless wars - ordinary working class people and the poor - and most of those wars were wars of conquest designed to line the pockets of the British aristocracy and rich elites. Once again - politics and sport are not separate.

The overwhelming majority of people in Britain who wear the poppy do so in remembrance of the people who died in a British uniform - not in remembrance of the wars of conquest. It is emotional, it is cultural and it happens because the vast majority of families in Britain have someone who served in the British military at some point in their ancestry. I acknowledge the right and dignity of those who wish to wear the poppy in remembrance of those individuals. Personally, even if I was British, I could not wear one because of my view that wars are the result of a class based society - but I will defend the rights of others to do so. But people in Britain need to remember that there are hundreds of millions of people all over the world who were subjugated by the same British military - and they are likely to take a different view.

By all means put the poppy on a football jersey - by all means let the players wear that jersey - but if some players choose not to wear a poppy they should not be vilified and abused for not doing so - their families should not be abused and threatened - and their views should be treated with the same respect that is expected by those who do wear the poppy.

Remember this - the British Legion have supported James McClean in his decision not to wear the poppy and have condemned the treatment he has received. Furthermore, James McClean is not the only footballer who refuses to wear a poppy. Nemanja Matic refused to wear the poppy - as a child growing up he has memories of British planes bombing his home in Serbia in 1999. Yet Matic has never received any abuse for taking the personal decision not to wear a poppy.

Mutual respect would go a long way in this situation - wear the poppy with dignity if you want to - but respect the rights of others as well if they choose not to.

I will finish with a quote - In 2015, Harry Leslie Smith, a 92-year-old World War II RAF veteran, said he’d stopped wearing a poppy because “the spirit of my generation has been hijacked” by latter-day politicians to “sell dubious wars” in Afghanistan and Iraq. He argued that the Royal British Legion does much good work for ex-service personnel, but that if politicians “want war they must be prepared to pay for the consequences and not leave it to charity”.

Excellent post.

 

[Horses Arse]

He has shown by running to the authorities every time that the chants wind him up - why wouldn't opposing fans try and get under his skin and try and get him fired up and possibly sent off?

I can't believe Wrexham have actually paid money for the guy, Wigan are in a bad way financially I'd have thought they could definitely negotiate them down

I'm not sure that's much of an argument for disliking him. Like saying those complaining homophobia or racism are wrong.

 

[junior]

This thread demonstrates the point I was making on the Aaron Connolly thread about the fact that sport and politics cannot be separated.

McClean and his family have received countless abuse and threats over his refusal to wear the poppy. But this is based on a reactionary gut reaction to the actions of one individual based on another individuals culture and tradition.

McClean comes from the Creggan in Derry - a slum housing estate where the Unionist controlled city council dumped Catholic families into overcrowded homes in the 1940s, 50s and 1960s - home to about 3,000 men, women and children - 98.8% of them Catholics. It was and is one of the poorest and most deprived areas in NI and the North was/is the most deprived part of the UK. It was one of the areas where the embryonic civil rights movement emerged (and the civil rights movement in NI was not about a united Ireland - but about Catholics being treated equally as all other citizens in the UK).

From the start of the Troubles (and long before it) the Creggan was subjected to widespread violence and repression from the RIC, the UDR, the B-Specials, loyalist paramilitaries and the British Army. For 25 years the residents of the Creggan faced violence from the British Army (and retaliated to that violence) on an almost daily occurrence. In 1972 British paratroopers opened fire on a protest in Derry, murdering 14 people and wounding another 13. Every single family in the Creggan was affected by this atrocity - either a member of their extended family was a victim, a neighbour was a victim or a friend was a victim. It was a devastating event that dominated the lives of the people of Derry (and particularly the Creggan and the Bogside) ever since. If James McClean wore a poppy he would have been ostracised from his community - he would never have been able to set foot in the Creggan again - the family that he still has living in the Creggan would be ostracised. The Creggan made James McClean who he is - and there is no way he could ever wear a poppy.

Now - the next question is why are football players wearing a poppy on their jerseys every year - because of politics - and specifically the politics of British imperialism. Millions of British soldiers have died or been wounded in countless wars - ordinary working class people and the poor - and most of those wars were wars of conquest designed to line the pockets of the British aristocracy and rich elites. Once again - politics and sport are not separate.

The overwhelming majority of people in Britain who wear the poppy do so in remembrance of the people who died in a British uniform - not in remembrance of the wars of conquest. It is emotional, it is cultural and it happens because the vast majority of families in Britain have someone who served in the British military at some point in their ancestry. I acknowledge the right and dignity of those who wish to wear the poppy in remembrance of those individuals. Personally, even if I was British, I could not wear one because of my view that wars are the result of a class based society - but I will defend the rights of others to do so. But people in Britain need to remember that there are hundreds of millions of people all over the world who were subjugated by the same British military - and they are likely to take a different view.

By all means put the poppy on a football jersey - by all means let the players wear that jersey - but if some players choose not to wear a poppy they should not be vilified and abused for not doing so - their families should not be abused and threatened - and their views should be treated with the same respect that is expected by those who do wear the poppy.

Remember this - the British Legion have supported James McClean in his decision not to wear the poppy and have condemned the treatment he has received. Furthermore, James McClean is not the only footballer who refuses to wear a poppy. Nemanja Matic refused to wear the poppy - as a child growing up he has memories of British planes bombing his home in Serbia in 1999. Yet Matic has never received any abuse for taking the personal decision not to wear a poppy.

Mutual respect would go a long way in this situation - wear the poppy with dignity if you want to - but respect the rights of others as well if they choose not to.

I will finish with a quote - In 2015, Harry Leslie Smith, a 92-year-old World War II RAF veteran, said he’d stopped wearing a poppy because “the spirit of my generation has been hijacked” by latter-day politicians to “sell dubious wars” in Afghanistan and Iraq. He argued that the Royal British Legion does much good work for ex-service personnel, but that if politicians “want war they must be prepared to pay for the consequences and not leave it to charity”.

Quite possibly the best post I've ever read on here.

I was just about to post on this thread regarding my dislike for JM. Having served several years in Northern Ireland and then gone on to loose close friends and nearly my own life in Afghanistan, I have some strong feelings about the Armed Forces, what the poppy stands for, Nationalism etc. But I'm also quite a simple person who doesn't think too deeply into things.

Your post has opened my mind to a different view.

 

[Dave Fishwick]

I'm not sure that's much of an argument for disliking him. Like saying those complaining homophobia or racism are wrong.

It wasn’t a rebuttal to the disliking point. You said you couldn’t understand why he got so much bile. He’s a pantomime villain and plays up to it.

It goes without saying carrying it on in the street to his kids isn’t on at all

 

[BN41Albion]

I hope you never watch Derry Girls, plenty of balaclava jokes for you to clutch your pearls at there too. But we all know it’s about finding any reason to have a racist pop at the bloke

I hope I never watch Derry Girls, too

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And yet, if Hendo decides to take an equivalent stance in Saudi for his new club, over LGBTQ+, he'd be applauded in England.

(Then he'd be fired, though, obvs.)

i thought it was a stoning?