Italian Constitutional Election - Dec 4th. Potentially another BREXIT/Trump moment?

[Igzilla]

You know the definition of tyrant is not giving people a choice because they can lose? Even Pinochet stepped down when he lost the second referendum on his rule.

I dont think democracy and tyranny mean what you think they do.

I didn't actually specify that only tyrants and demagogues initiated them, though don't let that stop you making assumptions. Quite often, they aren't in power and use them to skew the debate to promote their own particular brand of lies. Read up about the Savoy plebiscite as a classic example of how a vote can be manipulated. You may even learn something.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I didn't actually specify that only tyrants and demagogues initiated them, though don't let that stop you making assumptions. Quite often, they aren't in power and use them to skew the debate to promote their own particular brand of lies. Read up about the Savoy plebiscite as a classic example of how a vote can be manipulated. You may even learn something.

 

[larus]

I didn't actually specify that only tyrants and demagogues initiated them, though don't let that stop you making assumptions. Quite often, they aren't in power and use them to skew the debate to promote their own particular brand of lies. Read up about the Savoy plebiscite as a classic example of how a vote can be manipulated. You may even learn something.

The problem with both the Brexit and Italian vote is that the politicians didn't get what they wanted. So, I think you're point is actually misplaced in these circumstances.

Also in Switzerland, they get lots of referendums, and I don't think may people would question their democracy credentials.

 

[looney]

I didn't actually specify that only tyrants and demagogues initiated them, though don't let that stop you making assumptions. Quite often, they aren't in power and use them to skew the debate to promote their own particular brand of lies. Read up about the Savoy plebiscite as a classic example of how a vote can be manipulated. You may even learn something.

If you glue feathers to a fish it doesn't make it a chicken. Finding obscure faults in democratic processes does not change what democracy is.
A referendum is a form of direct Democracy which is the purest form of democracy, i dont need to read anything as its clear you dont know what you are talking about.

 

[Igzilla]

If you glue feathers to a fish it doesn't make it a chicken. Finding obscure faults in democratic processes does not change what democracy is.
A referendum is a form of direct Democracy which is the purest form of democracy, i dont need to read anything as its clear you dont know what you are talking about.

Then I suggest you go and live in Switzerland.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I dont think its helpful calling them remoaners. People who take a glib view of Democracy and are happy to be ruled by a Euro Acien regime of Bureaucrats are going to be dismissive of a popular direct democratic vote in the form of a referendum. This I take as a given, these Scum suckers will have to be fought every inch of the way, I also see this as self evident.

Time to make Britain Great again.

i thought the same, out is out ,no single market no free movement
regards
DR

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

i thought the same, out is out ,no single market no free movement
regards
DR

The world is not binary. We need the best 'deal' our ACE negotiators can deliver.

The possibilities are infinite.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The world is not binary. We need the best 'deal' our ACE negotiators can deliver.

The possibilities are infinite.

it is the best deal, OUT OF THE GRIPS OF A FAILING EU it's not a 5 minute wonder, its the road to recovery for the UK ................ GET TO LIKE IT
regards
DR

 

[looney]

Then I suggest you go and live in Switzerland.

No I'm OK here, maybe North Korea is where you should move to? None of that nasty democracy.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

None of which will happen and there are issues other than Brexit out there.

I will certainly not be voting for a Conservative party in 2020 that endorses the devastation being caused to lives and businesses across Sussex and our football club by the Southern Rail situation and in my constituency I'm left with little option of where to put my protest vote.

Even if in the very, very, very unlikely scenario it meant stopping a Corbyn/McDonnell Government taking office!?! As we are sharing voting intentions and reasons .. and assuming Corbyn remains unelectable I will wait until nearer the time and assess who is most likely to deliver the outcome I voted for in the Referendum. The Rail disruption is frigging annoying though.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Even if in the very, very, very unlikely scenario it meant stopping a Corbyn/McDonnell Government taking office!?! As we are sharing voting intentions and reasons .. and assuming Corbyn remains unelectable I will wait until nearer the time and assess who is most likely to deliver the outcome I voted for in the Referendum. The Rail disruption is frigging annoying though.

I will not be voting Conservative again in my life. Like yourself I will assess nearer the time what voting options appeal to me.

 

[larus]

I will not be voting Conservative again in my life. Like yourself I will assess nearer the time what voting options appeal to me.

The frightening thing is, the options available to govern the country are shocking.

The Tories don't really have the interests of the masses as a priority (and I would be a more natural Tory voter).
Labour are a shambles and are drifting further to the left. Un-electable IMO, as they appear to want to be a party of idealism/protest and not a government in waiting. The quality of their front bench is shocking; Diane Abbott - I mean really.
The Lib Dems are alienating vast swathes of voters with their stance on Brexit "We think we know best and we don't care what you voted for".
UKIP - they have achieved their aim and are now slowly disintegrating.

I am genuinely disillusioned with politics. They are so far out of touch with the country in their own Westminster Bubble. Spin/Lies is all we get. There are huge problems facing the country (excluding Brexit), and they can't work together to move the country forward. Cross-party support won't happen as it's all about point-scoring. Short-term planning is all they focus on and how the country will perceive them at the next election.

 

[ManOfSussex]

The frightening thing is, the options available to govern the country are shocking.

The Tories don't really have the interests of the masses as a priority (and I would be a more natural Tory voter).
Labour are a shambles and are drifting further to the left. Un-electable IMO, as they appear to want to be a party of idealism/protest and not a government in waiting. The quality of their front bench is shocking; Diane Abbott - I mean really.
The Lib Dems are alienating vast swathes of voters with their stance on Brexit "We think we know best and we don't care what you voted for".
UKIP - they have achieved their aim and are now slowly disintegrating.

I am genuinely disillusioned with politics. They are so far out of touch with the country in their own Westminster Bubble. Spin/Lies is all we get. There are huge problems facing the country (excluding Brexit), and they can't work together to move the country forward. Cross-party support won't happen as it's all about point-scoring. Short-term planning is all they focus on and how the country will perceive them at the next election.

I can only agree with you on all of that.

 

[GT49er]

The frightening thing is, the options available to govern the country are shocking.

The Tories don't really have the interests of the masses as a priority (and I would be a more natural Tory voter).
Labour are a shambles and are drifting further to the left. Un-electable IMO, as they appear to want to be a party of idealism/protest and not a government in waiting. The quality of their front bench is shocking; Diane Abbott - I mean really.
The Lib Dems are alienating vast swathes of voters with their stance on Brexit "We think we know best and we don't care what you voted for".
UKIP - they have achieved their aim and are now slowly disintegrating.

I am genuinely disillusioned with politics. They are so far out of touch with the country in their own Westminster Bubble. Spin/Lies is all we get. There are huge problems facing the country (excluding Brexit), and they can't work together to move the country forward. Cross-party support won't happen as it's all about point-scoring. Short-term planning is all they focus on and how the country will perceive them at the next election.

A very worrying - and pretty accurate - assessment of the political spectrum at the moment. There is a huge open goal available there for Labour to recapture its core voters and many more by coming out for Brexit - but Corbyn (who is at best a half-hearted remainer, quite possibly a secret leaver) and his cronies are unelectable (and barking!) and most of the PLP are right behind the Lib Dems in their desire to thwart Brexit, by any means.
I have never voted tory in my life, and never intend to, but at the moment I am closer to even considering it than I would ever have thought possible; I will not give my vote to any party that I think wants to renege on Brexit.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The frightening thing is, the options available to govern the country are shocking.

The Tories don't really have the interests of the masses as a priority (and I would be a more natural Tory voter).
Labour are a shambles and are drifting further to the left. Un-electable IMO, as they appear to want to be a party of idealism/protest and not a government in waiting. The quality of their front bench is shocking; Diane Abbott - I mean really.
The Lib Dems are alienating vast swathes of voters with their stance on Brexit "We think we know best and we don't care what you voted for".
UKIP - they have achieved their aim and are now slowly disintegrating.

I am genuinely disillusioned with politics. They are so far out of touch with the country in their own Westminster Bubble. Spin/Lies is all we get. There are huge problems facing the country (excluding Brexit), and they can't work together to move the country forward. Cross-party support won't happen as it's all about point-scoring. Short-term planning is all they focus on and how the country will perceive them at the next election.

Whether you like him or not, Farage was the only one who was able to connect with people, because he spoke about the issues that concerned people. It really is unbelievable that after the shocking results for Labour and the Lib Dems they are still coming out with the same shit.

 

[larus]

Whether you like him or not, Farage was the only one who was able to connect with people, because he spoke about the issues that concerned people. It really is unbelievable that after the shocking results for Labour and the Lib Dems they are still coming out with the same shit.

Actually, I have always quite liked Farage. I think he is slightly racist (to what extent I really don't think it's worth debating), but his direct, blunt talking was refreshing. I do not think he's suitable to be a politician as he lacks diplomacy (but then again, I think diplomacy - aka lies, deceit, vested interests; maybe part of the root cause of problems). He has proven to have the ability to connect to vast numbers of people though and is the main reason we have achieved Brexit. He got the issue into front-line politics and the media, forced CMD to change his strategy and then promise the referendum to protect the tory core vote, and the rest is history.

But, I would not want him near government being honest