Is America a Free Country? or a Police State?

[symyjym]

Of course it's a police state. Their police are militarised, corrupt and illegally get away with murder on a daily basis - not to mention they have by far the highest rate of incarceration in the world.

Difficult for the police not to be armed over there, it's been carried over from the days of the old wild west. The trouble is most Americans (I don't know the percentage) own a gun especially those that shouldn't be allowed to even look at one.

Have you ever seen that true crime series called The First 48?

 

[RexCathedra]

Difficult for the police not to be armed over there, it's been carried over from the days of the old wild west. The trouble is most Americans (I don't know the percentage) own a gun

.

Not 'most' -- too many, but not most: 34% of households, to be exact.

Gun ownership is declining, and has been for decades, in the sense that fewer people own guns. The number of guns any one gun owner owns is going up. That's what's driving sales.

 

[symyjym]

.

Not 'most' -- too many, but not most: 34% of households, to be exact.

Gun ownership is declining, and has been for decades, in the sense that fewer people own guns. The number of guns any one gun owner owns is going up. That's what's driving sales.

Thanks, I didn't know the true percentage.

 

[Stat Brother]

Try spending some time in the company of those who are able to see America for what it is, warts 'n' all.

Greg Proops' podcast being a prime example.
Or The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
Perhaps even John Oliver's new show.

As I said earlier America is currently all about WASP men with a liberal amount of money thrown in for good measure.

Guns, abortion, the prison population, race ghettos, the police, the government, immigration, TV, news.
Men and money, money and men.

 

[dingodan]

This was a false choice, I should really have asked is the U.S. a free country, or not. My bad.

It's amazing how militarized the police are now though.

 

[GreersElbow]

It's absolutely terrifying what's happening in the states. Whilst the whole world has been shown the horrors of Gaza and Iraq, the U.S has been increasing its stranglehold on its population. Pictures of police in military grade weaponry, armoured vehicles, camouflage uniforms that are similar/the same as U.S military stinks is what is scary. When you can't distinguish the difference between the police and the military, you're in a dictatorship.

There's all sorts of rumblings in U.S society that could erupt. 1) An increasing size of right-wing militias, becoming more organised and armed due to their fear of tyranny and the state becoming too big. 2) An increasing amount of disparity in U.S society wherein the 'underclass' are essentially being designated as potential dissidents, the ethnic minorities in the U.S have been subjected to institutionalised racism, as Michael Brown found out and became a victim to. This shows that the U.S government has a lot of issues on its hands. The fact the police have been arming themselves to the teeth indicates paranoia all around. It's eventually an internal security/prisoner's dilemma; does the citizen arm itself in case of 'civil war' which has been coined so often recently? Does the government begin to arm itself to the teeth in case the population begins to arm itself?

The fact the press has been targeted by police is, in my opinion, the scariest thought. Removal of the press' freedom is just one step before removing everyone else's. I would not be surprised if martial law is implemented.

Of course, from anyone else's point of view, my comment sounds like a crazy conspiracy theorist listening to Alex Jones and his following of nutjobs. However, what is happening has been predicted by odds and sods of society that everyone laughed at.
No

 

[Stat Brother]

IThe fact the press has been targeted by police is, in my opinion, the scariest thought. Removal of the press' freedom is just one step before removing everyone else's. I would not be surprised if martial law is implemented.

Of course, from anyone else's point of view, my comment sounds like a crazy conspiracy theorist listening to Alex Jones and his following of nutjobs. However, what is happening has been predicted by odds and sods of society that everyone laughed at.
No

The problem with the Amercan press, as it's reported to me, is it's desire to out right-wing each other.
Obviously the beast that is Fox leading the way.
Having listened to an interview with Eddie Pepitone on 5-live I'd imagine he's from the same 'angry liberal' mold as Proops.


Alex Jones is a nut-job, who even in the mists of a rabid anti everything pinko rant never misses a beat to publicise his own website and merch.

 

[GreersElbow]

The problem with the Amercan press, as it's reported to me, is it's desire to out right-wing each other.
Obviously the beast that is Fox leading the way.
Having listened to an interview with Eddie Pepitone on 5-live I'd imagine he's from the same 'angry liberal' mold as Proops.


Alex Jones is a nut-job, who even in the mists of a rabid anti everything pinko rant never misses a beat to publicise his own website and merch.

That's quite possibly the best description of American journalism. However, it doesn't negate the fact that journalists aren't being given the freedom to report the facts. Alex Jones is indeed a self-publicist and an ass shat, I don't disagree. I was purely using him as an example of nutjobs who've been saying this will happen for ages. So I'll expect traffic to his site and radio show to increase two-fold and his profits to increase. He does, however, then promote militias and gun ownership which will heighten the situation even more so.

I'm convinced he's the leader of the NWO, just trying to sway everyone to thinking otherwise. The Queen and Charles are indeed lizards, down with that sort of thing.

 

[RexCathedra]

There's all sorts of rumblings in U.S society that could erupt.

Don't bet on it. There are no instances in recorded history of a mob storming the castle with pitchforks in one hand and game controllers in the other.

 

[Lower West Stander]

It's absolutely terrifying what's happening in the states. Whilst the whole world has been shown the horrors of Gaza and Iraq, the U.S has been increasing its stranglehold on its population. Pictures of police in military grade weaponry, armoured vehicles, camouflage uniforms that are similar/the same as U.S military stinks is what is scary. When you can't distinguish the difference between the police and the military, you're in a dictatorship.

There's all sorts of rumblings in U.S society that could erupt. 1) An increasing size of right-wing militias, becoming more organised and armed due to their fear of tyranny and the state becoming too big. 2) An increasing amount of disparity in U.S society wherein the 'underclass' are essentially being designated as potential dissidents, the ethnic minorities in the U.S have been subjected to institutionalised racism, as Michael Brown found out and became a victim to. This shows that the U.S government has a lot of issues on its hands. The fact the police have been arming themselves to the teeth indicates paranoia all around. It's eventually an internal security/prisoner's dilemma; does the citizen arm itself in case of 'civil war' which has been coined so often recently? Does the government begin to arm itself to the teeth in case the population begins to arm itself?

The fact the press has been targeted by police is, in my opinion, the scariest thought. Removal of the press' freedom is just one step before removing everyone else's. I would not be surprised if martial law is implemented.

Of course, from anyone else's point of view, my comment sounds like a crazy conspiracy theorist listening to Alex Jones and his following of nutjobs. However, what is happening has been predicted by odds and sods of society that everyone laughed at.
No

Do you live here? Have you ever lived here?

Whilst the Michael Brown shooting looks bad - and my view is that this is a rogue officer. The autopsy results are not through yet. All depends on his proximity to the officer. Even allowing for this, however, to make such sweeping judgements about a country you clearly know nothing about is utterly ridiculous. The press have been pretty fair in terms of this has been reported, press freedom is not an issue.

If you insist on spouting such radical views, at least make some kind of effort to understand the country and its views. I too object to the gun laws here but it is embedded in society and a load of soco-economic claptrap from you is not going to change that.

 

[GreersElbow]

Do you live here? Have you ever lived here?

Whilst the Michael Brown shooting looks bad - and my view is that this is a rogue officer. The autopsy results are not through yet. All depends on his proximity to the officer. Even allowing for this, however, to make such sweeping judgements about a country you clearly know nothing about is utterly ridiculous. The press have been pretty fair in terms of this has been reported, press freedom is not an issue.

If you insist on spouting such radical views, at least make some kind of effort to understand the country and its views. I too object to the gun laws here but it is embedded in society and a load of soco-economic claptrap from you is not going to change that.

No, I don't live there. No, I haven't lived there. Not quite sure how that's a valid counter-argument, mind.

Rogue officer? Seems to me the U.S has a lot of rogue officers, or is it twitchy fingers? Either way, the U.S police seem to have a consistent habit of shooting suspects. Where's the sweeping judgement? There's evidence of growing right-wing militias. You talk of press freedom not being an issue despite wide reported journalists being ushered away from scenes and tear gas thrown in their direction, I'd also mention, no one's questioned the proportionately of reporting, not sure why you're bringing these up, as that's fairly strawman seeing as no one's made those arguments.. What's ridiculous is your obvious blanket judgement that 'everything's fine'. Instead, you use the typical and fairly fallacious "you don't live here". You live in New York, not Missouri. Your argument is about as valid as the one you're trying to make mine.

These aren't my 'radical' views, they're actually the views of members of U.S society who regularly comment on the situation. Whilst you may live there, that doesn't mean I have no contacts with in the U.S myself, I have many friends who live there. A few in Ohio, a family in Western Texas, 3 including a good friend in Sacramento and 1 in Louisiana. I pay attention to U.S domestic politics as I have a strong interest in them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkJ_ZiX_Tek


Watch this when you have a spare 30 minutes. These are the views I'm talking about, not specifically saying these are my own. If you view my opinion on the militarisation of U.S Police; http://www.economist.com/news/unite...-have-become-too-militarised-cops-or-soldiers the economist, a world respected magazine reported on this subject in March.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbe...ecurity-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/ U.S Government department stockpiling ammunition. Another respected business magazine.

So, again; what radical view?

You object to them? That's nice, I never mentioned anything about the right to bear arms, only the issue about those who are using their right to stockpile them.

 

[The Buttery Biscuit Base]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/09/us/war-gear-flows-to-police-departments.html

 

[GreersElbow]

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304450904579366963588434656 More articles about the police using military hardware.

 

[dingodan]

"If you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground," warns Officer Sunil Dutta of the Los Angeles Police Department, "just do what I tell you."

The thing is, Officer Dutta (pictured) is also an Adjunct Professor of Homeland Security and Criminal Justice at Colorado Technical University. And he uttered those words not in the heat of the moment, but in an opinion piece in the Washington Post responding to widespread criticism of police attitudes and tactics currently on display in Ferguson, Missouri, but increasingly common nationwide.

Dutta continues:

"Don't argue with me, don't call me names, don't tell me that I can't stop you, don't say I'm a racist pig, don't threaten that you'll sue me and take away my badge. Don't scream at me that you pay my salary, and don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"

Dutta actually comes off as a reasonable law enforcement officer, when compared to some of his colleagues who can be found venting on police-only bulletin boards or referring to Ferguson protesters as "****ing animals." Dutta acknowledges that police can abuse their authority, saying "When it comes to police misconduct, I side with the ACLU: Having worked as an internal affairs investigator, I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves."

He endorses the use of body cameras and dashcams to record interactions between police and the public. He counsels, "you don't have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there's no warrant."

And yet he demands unresisting submission to police without argument or even legal protest. Just how do you "refuse consent to search your car or home" without running afoul of the no-nos Dutta warns may get you "shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground"?

Remember, this is a thoughtful police officer, with a PhD., who teaches criminal justice.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/19/police-officer-if-you-dont-want-to-get-s

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Police shoot one black guy all hell breaks loose. Black communities butcher each other in ridiculous numbers throughout the same year and the black communities, their leaders and outraged overseas forum users don't give a ****.

Sad but true.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Do you live here? Have you ever lived here?

Whilst the Michael Brown shooting looks bad - and my view is that this is a rogue officer. The autopsy results are not through yet. All depends on his proximity to the officer. Even allowing for this, however, to make such sweeping judgements about a country you clearly know nothing about is utterly ridiculous. The press have been pretty fair in terms of this has been reported, press freedom is not an issue.

If you insist on spouting such radical views, at least make some kind of effort to understand the country and its views. I too object to the gun laws here but it is embedded in society and a load of soco-economic claptrap from you is not going to change that.

The US is made up of such diversity that in real terms the countries of Europe have more in common with each other than some States in America have with each other. New York for example is like a seismic difference in terms of libertarian views, diversity and tolerance compared to much of the Mid West, or Southern States (not sure if I need all these capital letters?).

If you think how we as a country are reacting to a federal like Europe, the same is multiplied for how people feel that the federal government interferes with their own Home Rule with state governing bodies, and police forces etc. Again, looking at taxation, laws and legislation you could easily argue that individual states are more like completely separate countries other than for the same language and flag.

It is a mental place, with all it's guns, nationalism, and religious embedded politics. Guess thats why something like The Wire was so successful as it managed to embody so much about life and politics in the US in such a specific set of localised narratives.

 

[Wally Goulds right toe]

Of course it's a police state. Their police are militarised, corrupt and illegally get away with murder on a daily basis - not to mention they have by far the highest rate of incarceration in the world.

I recently returned from a 'fact finding' mission in Denver, Colorado to see how that state's recent legalisation of cannabis is working in practice [purely in an observational capacity of course]. I was rather surprised at how many times I was asked to provide ID. The demand to see someone's 'papers' is not something we Brits readily equate with the notion of 'freedom'. If I was visiting the middle east I would have understood this - but this is the 'land of the free'. I came away with the impression that we enjoy greater civil liberties [though I accept that if I was young and black, living in London and continually subjected to stop and search my perspective might be rather different].

 

[The Buttery Biscuit Base]

Police shoot one black guy all hell breaks loose. Black communities butcher each other in ridiculous numbers throughout the same year and the black communities, their leaders and outraged overseas forum users don't give a ****.

Sad but true.

But the police officers are supposed to protect the innocent, how can they trust them when there is clear racism when it comes to policing.

Leaders in the communities REALLY do care, where did you pull that fact from?

Al Sharpton, Cornell West, Jessie Jackson, John Lewis, Andrew Young and those are the one that I can think of off the top of my head.

The US in not a place where you can come to make money and make better life for yourself anymore, if you're poor chances are you'll be poof for life.

 

[dingodan]

Holy sh*t what is wrong with these police officers?

 

[dingodan]

John Nichols ‏@NicholsUprising 4m

At least 11 journalists have been arrested in #Ferguson--including 5 correspondents for German & British newspapers.