[Misc] IF there's a Christmas lockdown - would you comply?

[Kinky Gerbil]

So neither of you will make the choice. Yet you expect the NHS to.

I am merely saying you have to be careful on who you deny medical care to with little or no detail

 

[LamieRobertson]

So neither of you will make the choice. Yet you expect the NHS to.

to that reply

I’m out before I say something I later regret ….

 

[Bozza]

The vaccine reportedly does very little against Omicron,

Please stop posting falsehoods on here (or I'll stop you myself).

The very best defence any of us can have from the thread Omicron poses, both individually and as part of a society working together, is to get as vaccinated as you can, ie double-jabbed and then boosted.

The science on vaccine protection which has made the news over the last 24-48 hours, is that double-jabbed alone provides greatly-reduced protection from infection, however even this is still believed to provide good protection against severe illness and death.

But boosted is better.

Get boosted.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Can anyone who shares this opinion explain how you can be so angry towards anyone who hasn’t had the vaccine?

The vaccine reportedly does very little against Omicron, so what on earth relevance to people who chose not to have a vaccine have to do with it? Genuinely struggling to understand how this has anything to do with the people who can’t have the vaccine or chose not too.

Shut up, stop reading the daily mail.

If the vaccine was useless we would be seeing some in hospital already.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm getting really concerned at these "it's milder so everything will be OK" type comments which are floating around, because it encourages people to be complacent.

Whether it's milder or not (and it's far from clear that it is), it makes little difference given three other factors...

- Transmissibility. It's spreading like wildfire.
- Immunity breakthrough. It's very good at sidestepping protection that was working against Delta
- Delta + Omicron. In the short-term at least, there is a chance we'll have a large Omicron wave on top of our existing Delta wave, because they kinda target different people. Those that Delta can't get at, Omicron can.

What all this brings about is the following which I feel like I'm repeating a lot right now: A small percentage of a very big number can still be a big number.

Putting that into the current context: A small percentage (people who get very sick) of a very big number (people who are infected) can still be a big number (people needing hospital care).

On the bolded bit:

IF it's more easily transmissible (which it seems to be) and
IF that Delta + Omicron effect does happen

There will be a mini lockdown by proxy because bar staff, cab drivers, cooks, footballers, stewards, railway workers, lorry drivers et al will be sick or isolating. Already we have a situation on the trains where people are trying to live a normal life, yet they are chronically short staffed..

It doesn't take much of a stretch then to think that Health workers will also be effected and we could be back in the 2020 situation of lots of patients with not very many NHS workers to look after them.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I’d comply 100%……or maybe 95%.

Still, there won’t be another lockdown.

Infection rates are less relevant than death rates. The death rate average has not moved much since June (when it shot up by 100 as we came out of the road mapped restrictions). Omicron has no bite (so far) it won’t shift the death rates.

 

[Bozza]

On the bolded bit:

IF it's more easily transmissible (which it seems to be) and
IF that Delta + Omicron effect does happen

There will be a mini lockdown by proxy because bar staff, cab drivers, cooks, footballers, stewards, railway workers, lorry drivers et al will be sick or isolating. Already we have a situation on the trains where people are trying to live a normal life, yet they are chronically short staffed..

It doesn't take much of a stretch then to think that Health workers will also be effected and we could be back in the 2020 situation of lots of patients with not very many NHS workers to look after them.

Exactly - this has the potential to quickly cripple large parts of the economy and, if reports on hospitals start looking bad, many people will take steps to protect themselves and their families, which largely means retreating as best they can.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if schools don't re-open in early January.

And it might be wise to lob some pasta, flour, eggs and bog rolls in your trolley with the sprouts and Quality Street.

 

[atomised]

Just voted and then obviously the results come up.

Frankly, those who voted 'no' ..............staggering......

Feck whether the government are partying or not (bloody idiots that they are), this is about protecting the NHS and others........

I wont enter into a discussion on this, as working for the NHS and with elderly vulnerable parents I feel very strongly about this, and might end up being banned.

I voted no for the reasons stated in my post. I will spend Christmas with my household and 2 people for whom I have a care/support role. If that is against the rules so be it but I don't see why that's staggering. I imagine in fact you would do the same. Then again those in question are in my support bubble. I just get sick of people questioning that and making me feel bad. I'm not referring to on here as such but social media, school runs, shopping etc. People making judgements based on every situation being black and white.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Exactly - this has the potential to quickly cripple large parts of the economy and, if reports on hospitals start looking bad, many people will take steps to protect themselves and their families, which largely means retreating as best they can.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if schools don't re-open in early January.

And it might be wise to lob some pasta, flour, eggs and bog rolls in your trolley with the sprouts and Quality Street.

Nothing like stirring some panic buying

 

[Bozza]

I’d comply 100%……or maybe 95%.

Still, there won’t be another lockdown.

Infection rates are less relevant than death rates. The death rate average has not moved much since June (when it shot up by 100 as we came out of the road mapped restrictions). Omicron has no bite (so far) it won’t shift the death rates.

The first Omicron case was identified in the UK just two weeks ago. It generally takes a fair while for people to progress from testing positive to a bad outcome.

But, even if Omicron does have "less bite", those little nips can add up to a big healthcare burden if huge numbers all get them around the same time.

 

[atomised]

Please stop posting falsehoods on here (or I'll stop you myself).

The very best defence any of us can have from the thread Omicron poses, both individually and as part of a society working together, is to get as vaccinated as you can, ie double-jabbed and then boosted.

The science on vaccine protection which has made the news over the last 24-48 hours, is that double-jabbed alone provides greatly-reduced protection from infection, however even this is still believed to provide good protection against severe illness and death.

But boosted is better.

Get boosted.

Echo that. Booster booked for Tuesday. Its apparent that the protection from that is an improvement on 2 jabs

 

[LamieRobertson]

I voted no for the reasons stated in my post. I will spend Christmas with my household and 2 people for whom I have a care/support role. If that is against the rules so be it but I don't see why that's staggering. I imagine in fact you would do the same. Then those in question are in my support bubble. I just get sick of people questioning that and making me feel bad. I'm not referring to on here as such but social media, school runs, shopping etc. People making judgements based on every situation being black and white.

Agreed….I had a care/support role for my father this time last year …I stretched the ‘rules’ a bit ..I’m glad I did…I don’t have that role this year because he’s no longer around.
It’s not all quite so black and white

 

[Hugo Rune]

What all this brings about is the following which I feel like I'm repeating a lot right now: A small percentage of a very big number can still be a big number.

Putting that into the current context: A small percentage (people who get very sick) of a very big number (people who are infected) can still be a big number (people needing hospital care).

You have to look very hard indeed for the Omicron figures. It’s clear why though, the Delta variant is still very problematic and people should not be easing up with the impression that Omicron is toothless.

The comment section of the Mail has come up trumps today: “And despite the infectiousness of the new Omicron strain, not a single one of 1,265 cases so far recorded in the UK has gone to hospital or resulted in any deaths.”

Whilst your analysis is correct, current UK figures are showing 0% hospitalisation and 0% deaths. How high does the Omicron infection figure have to get paired to the 0% figures before there is acceptance that Omicron is no worse than the Flu?

 

[Poojah]

Can anyone who shares this opinion explain how you can be so angry towards anyone who hasn’t had the vaccine?

The vaccine reportedly does very little against Omicron, so what on earth relevance to people who chose not to have a vaccine have to do with it? Genuinely struggling to understand how this has anything to do with the people who can’t have the vaccine or chose not too.

It seems to me this kind of post sums up what’s division covid has caused within society, says it all when you see posts saying unvaccinated shouldn’t receive treatment, it’s absolutely sick quite frankly. I’ve never heard anything like that said about anyone who is overweight or smokes.

Ok, there are a few things here. Firstly, the latest data suggests that the vaccine offers a 75% protection against symptomatic infection of Covid-19, so let’s not pretend that it’s some kind of irrelevance in all of this. It is incredibly relevant.

I would describe myself as a pretty loving and compassionate person, and yet you’ve described my post and attitude as ‘sick’, so let’s just dissect that.

As it stands, an overwhelming majority of people requiring hospital treatment for Covid are willingly unvaccinated. I don’t know what the exact percentage is for the UK, but recent data from the US (where vaccination rates are similar) had the figure at around 80%. With Omicron set to spread rapidly, it’s largely those individuals who pose a risk to healthcare systems, and subsequently create the need for a lockdown.

By and large these people had a choice. They have, in my opinion, acted illogically, ignorantly and selfishly in choosing not to have a vaccine, and as such risk causing further economic hardship for thousands of businesses, harming the educations of millions of children, adding to the already massive national debt and, let’s not put too finer point on it, contributing to the untimely death of thousands upon thousands of people - unvaccinated people facilitate transmission of the virus and the harm it does.

You speak of division, but this isn’t Brexit. It is, presumably, a natural disaster and as such there are going to be consequences that are not of man made choosing. The way out of this, the only way out of this as it stands, is through vaccination. By all means, choose not to have it - it’s your body and your right as a human being. But I think it’s wrong, sick even, that millions of people should suffer more hardship, physically, mentally and financially, because of the conscious actions of an ignorant minority.

You compared the situation to smokers and the obese. Ultimately, such individuals are not causing an overbearing load on the NHS (at least not directly), and so I’m not sure that’s a fair or reasonable analogy.

In short, get your self vaccinated or don’t - it’s your choice. But when push comes to shove, I don’t think the needs of the unvaccinated (be they freedom or medical care) should come before the needs of those who have acted to help themselves as a country as a whole. This whole situation is tragic and unfortunate, and continues to make me sad - I am not a cold hearted person. But this is just my logical thinking; if someone has to suffer then it shouldn’t be the people who have done the right thing.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

There are a lot of numpties out there. The numpties are the biggest risk to us all. If thre weren't so many in office and on the streets we'd quite possibly never have needed a second lock down.

The Government are more than capable of shafting everyone and everything without Covid, in that respect its been little more than a contributory factor.

At Zef towers We have been and still are fairly cautious in socialising, largely remaining in a controlled bubble to minimise risk whilst getting on with life as best as. Football and big gigs don't seem like a worthwhile risk just yet.

Agree there are a lot of numpties. However your last paragraph pretty much sums up what I meant. Ie Make your own risk assessment and act accordingly

 

[Icy Gull]

I am torn, we cancelled xmas last year because of lockdown. If this variant really ramps up with bad results for tripled vaxed folk, i’ll cancel again. If not we’ll defy the regulations and spend a couple of days with family who live in a remote area

 

[The Clamp]

Get triple jabbed. Wear a mask. Stay inside if you’re vulnerable. Trust in the vaccine, not Boris Johnson.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Last Xmas my best mate's missus couldn't bear to spend the big day without their traditional clan gathering. Twelve of them attended. Eleven of them came down with Covid. Luckily none needed hospitalisation, tho all felt rough to varying degrees. Hit the eldest worst.

These are the stakes you're playing for if you're even thinking of attending the Amex between now and Xmas. Doesn't seem a big ask to maybe reduce the communal risk by wearing a f*cking mask for a couple of hours

 

[maresfield seagull]

Last Xmas my best mate's missus couldn't bear to spend the big day without their traditional clan gathering. Twelve of them attended. Eleven of them came down with Covid. Luckily none needed hospitalisation, tho all felt rough to varying degrees. Hit the eldest worst.

These are the stakes you're playing for if you're even thinking of attending the Amex between now and Xmas. Doesn't seem a big ask to maybe reduce the communal risk by wearing a f*cking mask for a couple of hours

Agreed totally
But mask wearing on the concourse and public transport has been at a very low to almost non existent level so far
Let’s see if this changes ?

 

[The Clamp]

Last Xmas my best mate's missus couldn't bear to spend the big day without their traditional clan gathering. Twelve of them attended. Eleven of them came down with Covid. Luckily none needed hospitalisation, tho all felt rough to varying degrees. Hit the eldest worst.

These are the stakes you're playing for if you're even thinking of attending the Amex between now and Xmas. Doesn't seem a big ask to maybe reduce the communal risk by wearing a f*cking mask for a couple of hours

I agree about mask wearing but we are a year down the vaccine line so the risk is far lower for Christmas gatherings. Besides that, I’m not sure what your post has to do with a Christmas lockdown?