bathseagull said:
Er, yeah, probably.
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If it wasn't for the English...
- Thread starter The Large One
- Start date
Er, yeah, probably.
bathseagull
New member
of course i know alot were at work but i don't remember seeing more than a handful of portugal fans in lisbon the day of the game.
just trying to say they didn't seem particularly up for the game
just trying to say they didn't seem particularly up for the game
West Hoathly Seagull
Honorary Ruffian
I think you notice it in league games as well. Only English and German clubs have large away followings. In Italy, even the big clubs take pathetic support to away games. We were taking more to away games in midweek than some clubs such as Parma have at away games on Sundays, and Milan and Inter only sell one section at clubs like Fiorentina. I remember one Sunday night Milan were at Bari and sold only a very small section. True, it's a long way from Milan and they would have had to be at work on the Monday, but I am sure that the Albion would have taken a lot more. In Spain, away supporting seems hardly to happen at all. Are the ticket allocations much smaller than in England?
Ex Shelton Seagull
New member
Here's the attendance stats from last seasons Regionalliga Nord in Germany (equivilant to Division 2 in this country). The attendance that the team got when they played St Pauli are shown in brackets. As you can see from the stats, the boys in brown have a rather large amount of fans!
FC St Pauli = 17,480
TSV Eintract Braunschweig = 10,401 (15,000)
SC Rot-Weiss Essen = 10,000 (13,054)
FC Sachsen Leipzig = 7,801 (7,586)
Dynamo Dresden = 7,501 (16,168)
Wuppertaler SV = 6,800 (12,416)
Chemnitzer FC = 3,351 (5,010)
SC Preussen Munster = 3,310 (7,100)
SC Paderborn 07 = 2,684 (6,660)
KFC Uerdingen 05 = 2,524 (4,457)
KSV Holstein Kiel = 2,466 (9,030)
VFR Neumunster = 1,871 (5,335)
SG Wattenscheid 09 = 1,635 (4,681)
FC Schalke 04 Amateurs = 1,508 (1,623)
BV Borussia Dortmund Amateurs = 1,483 (2,613)
Hamburger SV Amateurs = 1,362 (11,217)
1.FC Koln Amateurs = 1,256 (2,700)
SV Werder Bremen Amateurs = 1,184 (7,600)
Average crowd for the league was 4,701. This is the highest amount ever. Last seasons average was 3,055.
St Pauli sold 11,700 season tickets last season. VFB Stuttgart sold 10,500 and Hansa Rostock sold 4,550. They're both in the Bundesliga 1 liga. They've reduced prices by 10% for this season and prices for terrace tickets are around 120 euros. Compare that with our prices!
FC St Pauli = 17,480
TSV Eintract Braunschweig = 10,401 (15,000)
SC Rot-Weiss Essen = 10,000 (13,054)
FC Sachsen Leipzig = 7,801 (7,586)
Dynamo Dresden = 7,501 (16,168)
Wuppertaler SV = 6,800 (12,416)
Chemnitzer FC = 3,351 (5,010)
SC Preussen Munster = 3,310 (7,100)
SC Paderborn 07 = 2,684 (6,660)
KFC Uerdingen 05 = 2,524 (4,457)
KSV Holstein Kiel = 2,466 (9,030)
VFR Neumunster = 1,871 (5,335)
SG Wattenscheid 09 = 1,635 (4,681)
FC Schalke 04 Amateurs = 1,508 (1,623)
BV Borussia Dortmund Amateurs = 1,483 (2,613)
Hamburger SV Amateurs = 1,362 (11,217)
1.FC Koln Amateurs = 1,256 (2,700)
SV Werder Bremen Amateurs = 1,184 (7,600)
Average crowd for the league was 4,701. This is the highest amount ever. Last seasons average was 3,055.
St Pauli sold 11,700 season tickets last season. VFB Stuttgart sold 10,500 and Hansa Rostock sold 4,550. They're both in the Bundesliga 1 liga. They've reduced prices by 10% for this season and prices for terrace tickets are around 120 euros. Compare that with our prices!
Dandyman
In London village.
Got back on Friday after a very enjoyable 3 days. After the result on Thursday most of the Portuguese we ran into were telling us England were dead certs for 2006 and were being very friendly.
Also if someone has it can they post the picture of Eusebio's statue drapped in a Brighton flag !
Also if someone has it can they post the picture of Eusebio's statue drapped in a Brighton flag !
Ex Shelton Seagull
New member
In contrast, here's the average attendances for last seasons Division 2. The attendance figure when we played that team is shown in brackets.
Barnsley = 9,620 (7,918)
Blackpool = 6,326 (6,194)
Bournemouth = 6,913 (7,890)
Brentford = 5,542 (6,532)
Brighton & Hove Albion = 6,248
Bristol City = 12,879 (17,908)
Chesterfield = 4,331 (4,478)
Colchester United = 3,536 (4,169)
Grimsby Town = 4,730 (3,867)
Hartlepool United = 5,419 (5,443)
Luton Town = 6,339 (6,846)
Notts County = 5,940 (5,051)
Oldham Athletic = 6,566 (6,522)
Peterborough United = 5,274 (5,779)
Plymouth Argyle = 12,654 (9,289)
Port Vale = 5,810 (5,646)
QPR = 14,785 (17,839)
Rushden & Diamonds 4,457 (4,634)
Sheffield Wednesday = 22,336 (19,707)
Stockport County = 5,315 (5,037)
Swindon Town = 7,839 (9,269)
Tranmere Rovers = 7,606 (7,616)
Wrexham = 4,396 (4,450)
Wycombe Wanderers = 5,291 (6,567)
Didn't include the play-off attendances. Average attendance for the league was 7,506.
Barnsley = 9,620 (7,918)
Blackpool = 6,326 (6,194)
Bournemouth = 6,913 (7,890)
Brentford = 5,542 (6,532)
Brighton & Hove Albion = 6,248
Bristol City = 12,879 (17,908)
Chesterfield = 4,331 (4,478)
Colchester United = 3,536 (4,169)
Grimsby Town = 4,730 (3,867)
Hartlepool United = 5,419 (5,443)
Luton Town = 6,339 (6,846)
Notts County = 5,940 (5,051)
Oldham Athletic = 6,566 (6,522)
Peterborough United = 5,274 (5,779)
Plymouth Argyle = 12,654 (9,289)
Port Vale = 5,810 (5,646)
QPR = 14,785 (17,839)
Rushden & Diamonds 4,457 (4,634)
Sheffield Wednesday = 22,336 (19,707)
Stockport County = 5,315 (5,037)
Swindon Town = 7,839 (9,269)
Tranmere Rovers = 7,606 (7,616)
Wrexham = 4,396 (4,450)
Wycombe Wanderers = 5,291 (6,567)
Didn't include the play-off attendances. Average attendance for the league was 7,506.
interjambo
New member
I can comment on some of the points on this thread based on my understanding of the Italian situation.
It is true that the Italians, in general, are not all that into their national team. However, they are ready to jump on the bandwagon when they get to the later stages of major competitions.
Many of them stop short of travelling due to financial factors and because they prefer to save their holidays for traditional destinations. Few Italians would see the attraction of hanging out with a bunch of other men drinking lots of beer.
Apart from this, the major point, as has been hinted at, is that they don't have the equivalent of the "small team" supporters (all due respect to Brighton and co). When "local" teams are doing well in domestic leagues, they do get quite respectable crowds in the larger cities. See e.g. Messina (B), Livorno(B), Atalanta(B), Arezzo (C1), Cesena (C1) this season. This is, however, a transient support as many of them are Juventus fans (or even Milan/Inter) at heart. Even Palermo who are expected to get around 35,000 at home games in Serie A next season were playing in front of 10,000 while the others followed Juve on Pay TV.
The "Man Utd" factor is much more prevalent in Italy than in England. These long distance fans are also aided by the fact that every game in Serie A is available live for about the same price as a Sky TV subscription in the UK.
As for the away match travelling in Italy, I can assure you that it's not a lot of fun. Try going to Parma on a Sunday night for an 830pm kick off and then being kept inside the ground for an hour and a half after the match. Just an hour and a half from Milan but getting home at 130 in the morning is not ideal.
Away fans are all treated like ultras even when they are clearly "normal" fans.
The Italians know that their national game is in a bit of trouble but they seem incapable of doing anything about it as more and more money heads the way of Juve, Milan and Inter.
It is true that the Italians, in general, are not all that into their national team. However, they are ready to jump on the bandwagon when they get to the later stages of major competitions.
Many of them stop short of travelling due to financial factors and because they prefer to save their holidays for traditional destinations. Few Italians would see the attraction of hanging out with a bunch of other men drinking lots of beer.
Apart from this, the major point, as has been hinted at, is that they don't have the equivalent of the "small team" supporters (all due respect to Brighton and co). When "local" teams are doing well in domestic leagues, they do get quite respectable crowds in the larger cities. See e.g. Messina (B), Livorno(B), Atalanta(B), Arezzo (C1), Cesena (C1) this season. This is, however, a transient support as many of them are Juventus fans (or even Milan/Inter) at heart. Even Palermo who are expected to get around 35,000 at home games in Serie A next season were playing in front of 10,000 while the others followed Juve on Pay TV.
The "Man Utd" factor is much more prevalent in Italy than in England. These long distance fans are also aided by the fact that every game in Serie A is available live for about the same price as a Sky TV subscription in the UK.
As for the away match travelling in Italy, I can assure you that it's not a lot of fun. Try going to Parma on a Sunday night for an 830pm kick off and then being kept inside the ground for an hour and a half after the match. Just an hour and a half from Milan but getting home at 130 in the morning is not ideal.
Away fans are all treated like ultras even when they are clearly "normal" fans.
The Italians know that their national game is in a bit of trouble but they seem incapable of doing anything about it as more and more money heads the way of Juve, Milan and Inter.
Hannibal smith
New member
I have likewise just returned from Portugal. A fantastic atmosphere, not a hint of trouble - I'm already planning Germany 2006.
Without doubt the biggest number of Fans in Portugal was English, probably followed by Sweden, Denmark and Holland. The reason for the top 3 is due to (1) England fans having the most passionate following for their country (2) Cost of living - Portugal is cheap, especially for the Scandinavians and us. Also, the standards of living in each of these country's are some of the highest in Europe. The Dutch meanwhile make the Scottish seem generous. They have picked up on the fact that if they have England tickets they can sell them at a premium and pay for their holiday. At the Holland V Latvia game they wanted to sell me tickets for the Portugal game for 300e - The English guy in front of me would have sold me his 2 spare for 150e each
On the Violence front, at the games the atmosphere was jovial, never threatening, neither was it around the stadium or anywhere else other than the Algarve. The Portugese were very laid back in their approach to policing which clearly worked. There is a new England fan travelling who wants to support the team and get on with the locals and opposing fans. My only concern is whether or not this is carried over to Germany, where much of the xenophobic chanting was directed at. If the Burberry boys are to return - it will be there. Similarly, it was a better tournament for the absence of Turkey.
Without doubt the biggest number of Fans in Portugal was English, probably followed by Sweden, Denmark and Holland. The reason for the top 3 is due to (1) England fans having the most passionate following for their country (2) Cost of living - Portugal is cheap, especially for the Scandinavians and us. Also, the standards of living in each of these country's are some of the highest in Europe. The Dutch meanwhile make the Scottish seem generous. They have picked up on the fact that if they have England tickets they can sell them at a premium and pay for their holiday. At the Holland V Latvia game they wanted to sell me tickets for the Portugal game for 300e - The English guy in front of me would have sold me his 2 spare for 150e each
On the Violence front, at the games the atmosphere was jovial, never threatening, neither was it around the stadium or anywhere else other than the Algarve. The Portugese were very laid back in their approach to policing which clearly worked. There is a new England fan travelling who wants to support the team and get on with the locals and opposing fans. My only concern is whether or not this is carried over to Germany, where much of the xenophobic chanting was directed at. If the Burberry boys are to return - it will be there. Similarly, it was a better tournament for the absence of Turkey.
The Large One
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Hannibal smith said:
100% agree with everything there.
pasty
A different kind of pasty
I'm sure I read somwhere that around 25% of ALL Euro 2004 tickets were sold to people with English addresses.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,632
I was in Portugal for a week, the Dutch support was just fantastic but the numbers of English there was just unbelievable.
Watching the Czech / Denmark game last night I couldn't help think that stadium might have been full if England were still in the competition.
It's very encouraging that there has been no football-related violence at any of the host towns for two tournaments in a row - maybe England fans have turned the corner, although Germany 2006 will be the ultimate test of that.
Watching the Czech / Denmark game last night I couldn't help think that stadium might have been full if England were still in the competition.
It's very encouraging that there has been no football-related violence at any of the host towns for two tournaments in a row - maybe England fans have turned the corner, although Germany 2006 will be the ultimate test of that.
Row Z Creased Shirt
New member
I too have just returned from a hectic week in Portugal. Highlights were
1. Holland Czech game, one of the best I have ever seen.
2. The portuguese celebrations in Viseu (the small town we were staying in) after the spainsh game, believe me it meant a lot to them.
3. The Sweden Denmark game, horrible weather, terrific fans and a great result to send out the Italians in the funniest way possible.
4. The vast amount of free food you got as a complementary starter whenever you went to a restaurant or cafe.
5. Despite the result, the England Portugal game was an amazing game to be at. The atmosphere was brilliant, crowd segregation non-existent but not a hint of malevolence in the air at all, despite the obvious on pitch controversies. The portuguese were magnamious in victory and the english took it on the chin whilst imagining elaborate tortures for the worst ref on the planet.
6. France v Greece, there is nothing like a bit of schadenfreude to cheer yourself up with after defeat. The french were never in it, and the portugal v england chanting in the first half was hilarious.
7. The fans. It's been said already on here, but the England fans, those following the team or just following the other games were an absolute credit to the country. Everyone had a blinding time, we were welcomed from day one and treated like human beings throughout, and the favour was returned. This tournament should represent a real turning point for us. Not only did we finally join in the fun, we were often at the centre of it. I hope the hooligan morons with their little england mentality enjoyed seeing us all have good time without their wretched presence. Long may they still be banned.
1. Holland Czech game, one of the best I have ever seen.
2. The portuguese celebrations in Viseu (the small town we were staying in) after the spainsh game, believe me it meant a lot to them.
3. The Sweden Denmark game, horrible weather, terrific fans and a great result to send out the Italians in the funniest way possible.
4. The vast amount of free food you got as a complementary starter whenever you went to a restaurant or cafe.
5. Despite the result, the England Portugal game was an amazing game to be at. The atmosphere was brilliant, crowd segregation non-existent but not a hint of malevolence in the air at all, despite the obvious on pitch controversies. The portuguese were magnamious in victory and the english took it on the chin whilst imagining elaborate tortures for the worst ref on the planet.
6. France v Greece, there is nothing like a bit of schadenfreude to cheer yourself up with after defeat. The french were never in it, and the portugal v england chanting in the first half was hilarious.
7. The fans. It's been said already on here, but the England fans, those following the team or just following the other games were an absolute credit to the country. Everyone had a blinding time, we were welcomed from day one and treated like human beings throughout, and the favour was returned. This tournament should represent a real turning point for us. Not only did we finally join in the fun, we were often at the centre of it. I hope the hooligan morons with their little england mentality enjoyed seeing us all have good time without their wretched presence. Long may they still be banned.
The Large One
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Row Z Creased Shirt said:
1. Ditto. I was there for that - in amongst the Dutch fans. Even they gave the Czechs a standing ovation. And they gave Dick Advocaat a hard time for substituting Robben.
2. Ditto. But in Ponte de Lima. Marvellous scenes.
3. I was at the Italy v Bulgaria match at the same time. 'Bastardos' was a common word that night. And there were hundreds of English fans in amongst the Bulgarians, cheering them on. That was funny.
4. And the rest. Fishcakes, mini-pasties, mussels, cheese, ham, bread, olives. All for starters - whether you wanted them or not.
Additional - hundreds of Danish fans at the Denmark v Bulgaria game singing 'you're shit, and you know you are...' in English. Car parking (usually done on motorway flyovers, hard shoulders and in the middle of roundabouts) aside, this is the way to run a tournament.
Thimble Keegan
Remy LeBeau
Just to respond to a few points on here:
Finbar, your comments suggest that people wearing Stone Island, Burberry, Aquascutum, Lacoste etc are all hooligans and this is very wide of the mark. I often wear these labels (except Burberry as it is tacky) and sometimes wear those clothes and sometimes wear an England/Albion shirt. I wear what I like. I have always worn decent clothes but in the past I shyed away from the above labels as they were linked so strongly with hooligans but that has now changed. The clothes have become a part of just general fan/terrace culture. This is proved by the amount of "normal" England fans I have met on my trips who are clad in said gear. I once met a bloke who writes down all the England line-ups, goals, bookings, etc in a little book, basically a real statto but he had a Hackett polo shirt and Lacoste trainers. With this shift I now feel comfortable wearing these clothes and I am no hooligan and people here can vouch for that. I am 5ft 3 and weigh about 8 stone (with cool hair) so I am about as threatening as a smurf.
Hannibal Smith, I believe the trouble on the Algarve would have happened anyway. I dare say that English on holiday in Ibiza, Majorca, etc all caused the local police forces grief following the FrancePortugal games. I agree with your views on Turkey's absence helping matters and I believe not having Wales there either was a godsend. English, Welsh & alcohol all together would have produced mayhem every night, of that I am sure.
Row Z Creased Shirt, your observations on the Portugese celebrations are exactly the same as I witnessed. We spent the first few days in Lisbon before decamping to the coastal resort of Ericeira where there was a marquee on the beach that was open until about 5:00am every night. Met some cool Portugese people there and got wasted a lot. After the Spain game we were in a different part of town and they just filled this road with people and cars. It was quite some spectacle and I saw some of the Portugese people I had met earlier in the week and it was great. Also had my pic taken with a lovely Portugese bird with big tits and an amazing cleavage on display. It was done on my mates digital camera so I might try and get it on here. That said following their defeat of us I found them all incredibly annoying and they were really in your face.
Albion & England forever.
Thimble Keegan
Lisbon BHA
Finbar, your comments suggest that people wearing Stone Island, Burberry, Aquascutum, Lacoste etc are all hooligans and this is very wide of the mark. I often wear these labels (except Burberry as it is tacky) and sometimes wear those clothes and sometimes wear an England/Albion shirt. I wear what I like. I have always worn decent clothes but in the past I shyed away from the above labels as they were linked so strongly with hooligans but that has now changed. The clothes have become a part of just general fan/terrace culture. This is proved by the amount of "normal" England fans I have met on my trips who are clad in said gear. I once met a bloke who writes down all the England line-ups, goals, bookings, etc in a little book, basically a real statto but he had a Hackett polo shirt and Lacoste trainers. With this shift I now feel comfortable wearing these clothes and I am no hooligan and people here can vouch for that. I am 5ft 3 and weigh about 8 stone (with cool hair) so I am about as threatening as a smurf.
Hannibal Smith, I believe the trouble on the Algarve would have happened anyway. I dare say that English on holiday in Ibiza, Majorca, etc all caused the local police forces grief following the FrancePortugal games. I agree with your views on Turkey's absence helping matters and I believe not having Wales there either was a godsend. English, Welsh & alcohol all together would have produced mayhem every night, of that I am sure.
Row Z Creased Shirt, your observations on the Portugese celebrations are exactly the same as I witnessed. We spent the first few days in Lisbon before decamping to the coastal resort of Ericeira where there was a marquee on the beach that was open until about 5:00am every night. Met some cool Portugese people there and got wasted a lot. After the Spain game we were in a different part of town and they just filled this road with people and cars. It was quite some spectacle and I saw some of the Portugese people I had met earlier in the week and it was great. Also had my pic taken with a lovely Portugese bird with big tits and an amazing cleavage on display. It was done on my mates digital camera so I might try and get it on here. That said following their defeat of us I found them all incredibly annoying and they were really in your face.
Albion & England forever.
Thimble Keegan
Lisbon BHA
Charlies Shinpad
New member
I was only out there for the England v Croatia game,but agree 100% with evryone on on here about the organisation and policing.
We got the football special back to Faro after the game and the train left Lisbon at 2.20am and when it pulled into Albufera at 5.30 am there were about 50 police at the station waiting for the train to come in so they could disperse the fans!!
My only worry about 2006 is that it is reachable in a day,so you will get all the idiots going over there on a day out,and also with a big Turkish population over there it will have all the makings of a mass brawl.It also doesnt help that the Germans dont like them either!
Mind you will we qualify with this idiot in charge of us now??
We got the football special back to Faro after the game and the train left Lisbon at 2.20am and when it pulled into Albufera at 5.30 am there were about 50 police at the station waiting for the train to come in so they could disperse the fans!!
My only worry about 2006 is that it is reachable in a day,so you will get all the idiots going over there on a day out,and also with a big Turkish population over there it will have all the makings of a mass brawl.It also doesnt help that the Germans dont like them either!
Mind you will we qualify with this idiot in charge of us now??
Tooting Gull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 11,035
Like Wozza, I was at the Italy v Sweden game and the Italians' lack of support for their national team is making them a laughing stock among European fans who do actually go to matches.
I can't believe it isn't a bigger issue for their media, after all they've got about three sports papers to fill every day with random musings about any old rubbish. They're supposed to be a football superpower, and they've got Conference support in the ground.
And it must have an effect on the team. In the heat of battle, you aren't thinking about the millions watching on TV at home, you must in some way be playing for the fans in the stadium roaring you on. We are very lucky in that respect, as we have more and louder fans than even the Dutch, Swedes and Danes, with the Germans probably fifth.
English fans have certainly helped UEFA coffers with all those who bought blind just be there, and there were loads of them - but many of those for England games obtained their tickets via other routes, black market or sponsors, so no extra money would have gone to UEFA.
I can't believe it isn't a bigger issue for their media, after all they've got about three sports papers to fill every day with random musings about any old rubbish. They're supposed to be a football superpower, and they've got Conference support in the ground.
And it must have an effect on the team. In the heat of battle, you aren't thinking about the millions watching on TV at home, you must in some way be playing for the fans in the stadium roaring you on. We are very lucky in that respect, as we have more and louder fans than even the Dutch, Swedes and Danes, with the Germans probably fifth.
English fans have certainly helped UEFA coffers with all those who bought blind just be there, and there were loads of them - but many of those for England games obtained their tickets via other routes, black market or sponsors, so no extra money would have gone to UEFA.
Jameson
Active member
I've posted this elsewhere but to join with the above:
Iv'e just got back from Portugal having seen 2 England games and the Germany v Holland game. No trouble at all that I saw although pretty rowdy/loud at times.
The Portuguese were great to us wherever we went. I rellly hope that those based in this country are not given a hard time just because their team won a game of football.
The only place I felt slightly uneasy was in Madeira, oddly enough. Went to watch the Portugal v England game on a big screen in the main square in Funchal - very partisan crowd and someone got arrested after what seemed like a fairly serious diturbance in the crowd. I don't think any English people were involved. We decided to watch the second half in the hotel and snuck out at half time!
The comments about foreign fans chanting in English: I was impressed by Germans sing "we are Deutchland, super Deutchland, ...." and Dutch fans singing "Ollie Khan is a Hollander, a Hollander, etc...." (dont ask me why).
Although the Dutch were there in numbers, their singing was not that good - I though the Germans and Croats were best (after us, of course). The Croats were nearly 100% male supporters so sounder quite intimidating.
I though the Potuguese only really turned out in numbers once they had won.
Iv'e just got back from Portugal having seen 2 England games and the Germany v Holland game. No trouble at all that I saw although pretty rowdy/loud at times.
The Portuguese were great to us wherever we went. I rellly hope that those based in this country are not given a hard time just because their team won a game of football.
The only place I felt slightly uneasy was in Madeira, oddly enough. Went to watch the Portugal v England game on a big screen in the main square in Funchal - very partisan crowd and someone got arrested after what seemed like a fairly serious diturbance in the crowd. I don't think any English people were involved. We decided to watch the second half in the hotel and snuck out at half time!
The comments about foreign fans chanting in English: I was impressed by Germans sing "we are Deutchland, super Deutchland, ...." and Dutch fans singing "Ollie Khan is a Hollander, a Hollander, etc...." (dont ask me why).
Although the Dutch were there in numbers, their singing was not that good - I though the Germans and Croats were best (after us, of course). The Croats were nearly 100% male supporters so sounder quite intimidating.
I though the Potuguese only really turned out in numbers once they had won.