If it wasn't for the English...

[The Large One]

...I am fairly sure that this European Championship would have been a financial 'mare.

So many of the games that we went to over there, there were THOUSANDS of English fans. The England flags around the grounds don't tell half the story. Italy v Bulgaria was the most noticeable. The Italian support was pathetic. I don't know the official attendance (it's not on the Euro 2004 website), but if there were 17,000, I would be surprised. Out of that, at least 3,000 were English.

It goes on, Spain v Greece, easily 2,000 England (albeit in what was close to a sell-out). Germany v Holland - 48,000 attendance, and no more than 12,000 Germans. Germany v Lativa - 2,000 English in the middle of the Germans cheering on Latvia. Now, that was funny.

Denmark v Bulgaria in that Subbuteo ground next to the rockface. zzzzzzz. Thousands of English probably felt at home because it was FREEZING in that ground.

And yet, England could have sold out Luz a couple of times over. The reason for attendances not reaching capacity was because the FA had bought 5,000 tickets and kept them back, just to reduce the number of English there.

And the 50,000 or so English (50,000! - the Dutch were second with 25,000, which is even more than the Spanish could muster) were very well behaved in Lisbon, Porto and other cities (apart from the fat tattooed pikeys in the Algarve), and it was a great party.

And all along the message was - England fans misbehave, England get thrown out. In reailty it was, England fans don't turn up, UEFA gonna shit themselves.

 

[London Calling]

I remember the Italy v Bulgaria game the commentor described the weather as a "night out in Hartlepool" just as the camera foccussed on a Scunthorpe flag.

The ground was half empty. It was embarrassing!!!

What the situation like againgst Portugal, the Radio ran stories stating the locals had access to tickets were buying them at 30euro's and selling them for 500euro's.

LC

 

[Wozza]

Spot on TLO.

We noticed the poor Italian support against Sweden - who must have outnumbered them 6-to-1 or more.

There were 5,000+ empty seats at that game.

Friends had spare tickets for a few non-England games and were having to sell them below cost price, with several given away for nothing or wasted.

It seems that only the English are interested in watching games as neutrals. And only the English travel without tickets.

 

[Lush]

It seems to me that in some countries - perhaps Italy, Portugal, Spain etc - there is a greater tradition of watching matches in TVs in local cafes and bars rather than actually going to the match - even if you live in the town where the team is playing.

I reckon some people who would consider themselves diehard Barcelona fans eg may just prefer to go to their local bar as usual, rather than pay a lot of money for a ticket, get on a tram/bus etc.

Isn't it the case that only Barca/Madrid matches actually sell out and actual crowds are often quite small while the TV audience is huge. Almost the opposite of this country?

 

[Robot Chicken]

I'm very interested to see what happens now that England are out

 

[Gully]

This is a fair point, there were quite a few St George's Crosses on view last night, I was pretty sure that I saw one with Worthing on it but the camera never panned back to that area of the ground again so I can't be 100% certain. I bet there are loads more at the game tonight, probably the huge one with Huddersfield Town on it behind one of the goals, and certainly more than a few English in the crowd.

Wozza is probably right about the travelling without tickets bit, only the English would travel to Portugal in the hope of either picking up a ticket from a tout or just to watch the game on a big screen in the local park. I know it sounds like we are blowing our own trumpet but if you ask people from other European nations about their view of the English many will say that the club competitions were devalued considerably when we were banned in the late 80's, the Euro Champs would have been a lesser competition if we had been kicked out for a bit of scrapping on the Algarve. I had been wondering how much trouble is caused by the incorrect mixture of Sun, Alcohol and Englishman on the Algarve during any tourist season, I wouldn't mind betting that it isn't far off what has happened during the past couple of weeks anyway, its just that the World's press has focussed on it.

 

[The Large One]

Isn't it the case that only Barca/Madrid matches actually sell out and actual crowds are often quite small while the TV audience is huge. Almost the opposite of this country?

That point can be extended further by the level of loyalty of English fans to their clubs down the league. For instance, what game in Italy / Spain / Germany / France would attract 24,000 people the way that Hull City v Doncaster Rovers did for (never mind the league names) a Fourth Division match last season?

I don't have the exact figures, but I was told recently that the crowd averages in England down the leagues are 50% higher than whoever is in second place in Europe. We are moaning about our 7,000 capacity, yet in most of Europe, this would be quite sufficient.

 

[Wozza]

This is a fair point, there were quite a few St George's Crosses on view last night

There was always going to be a lot of England fans at that game though - that was supposed to be our quarter-final.

 

[The Large One]

People were buying tickets for some of the games from the touts at face value, or less than face value. You also got the feeling that these touts were UEFA-sanctioned...

You could get tickets from that stadium's ticket office, but they were only selling the highest price tickets first. For Italy v Bulgaria, they were only offering €100 tickets, when clearly there were empty seats in every part of the ground.

 

[Gully]

The Large One makes a good point about our league crowds, they are still on the rise, I for one would have liked to have been at the Hull v Donny Rovers game last season, I would bet a fair few who post on here would join me in that. I think the view that the English don't mind going to a game as a neutral is also a fair point, its good to go to a game for the atmosphere occasionally, safe in the knowledge that you can enjoy the football without the emotional attachment to a particular team.

 

[dougdeep]

If it wasn't for the English who would hate the French?

 

[nwgull]

I may have been imagining it, but did I hear a loud chant of "Ingerland, Ingerland, Ingerland...." at the France v Greece game last night

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

It is a fact that the only Quarter Final that was a sell out was the England v Portugal game,the rest of the games were easily accesable for tickets.

After the Croatia game as we walked out of the game the Portugese were gutted they were playing us as they said we were there biggest spenders out there,and when we went out so there profits went on the plane home with us

 

[mona]

If it wasn't for the English who would hate the French?

Well Little Englander I think that you'll find the Spanish do.

As for the Italians, their big loyalty is to their region or city. Italy has only been unified for 150 years.

 

[Everest]

If it wasn't for the English who would hate the French?

Just about everybody else I would imagine.

 

[dougdeep]

Well Little Englander I think that you'll find the Spanish do.

As for the Italians, their big loyalty is to their region or city. Italy has only been unified for 150 years.

Hey, I'm not little!

 

[balloonboy]

Why do so many foreigners love playing in the Premiership? Because of the crowds! Football is FAR bigger in England than anywhere else in the world. OK, you have La Liga and the Calcio, but if you look at the attendances for those leagues, only the real big matches get much over 30,000. In England, EVERY premiership game is a virtual sell out (except Middlesborough!). And below the premiership the passion is massive. But what about Spain or Italy - no one really cares about their local team (or so it seems to me). Euro 2004 is the second major tournament in a row where 99.9% of England fans have been a credit to their country. Let's hope we have finally reclaimed the England team from the louts, and let's hope we get some credit at last for the amazing passion we have for Football in this country. Mr Prescott - you have seen that passion.....don't let it die for the sake of a few cantankerous old nimbys in Falmer!!

 

[The Large One]

For some reason, the Portuguese are not at all keen on the French. They say it's a Napoleon thing. Thought their brandy was OK actually. Incidentally, French is the second language the kids learn at school after their native tongue. They don't bother with Spanish until they are 14.

Historically, Portugal is England's longest standing ally. I don't think there was too much of the 'long lost brother' about the Portuguese towards us, but many of them were geniunely miffed when they realised we were going to be playing them in the quarter-finals. I think that they would have preferred to meet us in the final - and it wasn't because of our respective footballing qualities.

I think the sooner UEFA realise what a financial ASSET the English fans can be, the less they will keep their stupid threats of expulsion hanging over us.

The next three major footballing tournaments are all attractive - and easy - enough for the English to get to :-

Germany 2006
Austria / Switzerland 2008
South Africa 2010
and how knows - maybe Spain 2012?

Although the tournament is not over, I think that the English fans over there have been a major credit to England. Sure, there are too many morons who just don't get it. Look at those twats in the Algarve. I, for one, cannot identify with them, and am extremely embarrassed that both they and I are cheering for the same thing.

But we will doubtless soon have head-up-corporate-arse UEFA bleating on about 'England fans' ' threat of expulsion', 'hooligans are back' etc etc.

 

[finbar]

Interesting points - i went to 7 games out there, and of the 3 non-england games I can tell you this:

Sweden v Denmark - could have sold 20,000 more tickets

Holland v Czech Republic - Dutch fans were buying tickets at well over face value.

Czechs v Latvia - didnt sell out, but considering the relative size of the populations and the average wages this isnt a surprise.

Dont underestimate the crowds in Germany, check out St Pauli's attendance if you think no-one watches lower league football outside england.

Only a complete idiot would have paid 500 euros for ANY of the england games. For the portugal game we got a pair of category 1 (face value 135) in the UEFA!! section 10 rows from players wives and FA Party for 330 euros each. Category 3 tickets were generally available for about 150 euros if you put any effort in whatsoever. Dont believe what you read in the press.

Overall, i believe if theres a "Fans of the Tournament" award english fans followed by portugese will win it. Id never seen England abroad before and was a bit apprehensive, but even the Burburry wearing wankers couldnt ruin it at the games as no-one was interested in anything other than having a good time. The problem with the peasants in the Algarve was to be expected and i honestly hope this tournament might start to change the perceptions of English football fans abroard. Excluding 2500 obviously helped, extend this to anyone wearing a stone island, burberry, aquascutum etc item of clothing and problem solved!!

 

[bathseagull]

just gaot back form portugal last night and something that really pissed me off about the portugese (and other than this they were fantastic) was their ability to support about 20 teams and countries all at the same time.
they all seem to have a love for football as a sport and means for getting people together, which is quality, but no real passion for their club or national side.
after they beat spain and then engalnd, they all jumped in their cars and spent all night in a traffic jam with their horns blaring and flags out the window. obviously they were chuffed they'd gone through but it almost felt like it was a bit for show and there were only a few who genuinely were excited about the game and the rest were just up for a laugh.
also before the game, there was no sign of any portgugese in rossio square or in the middle of lisbon while the english were singing (unfortunately about german bombers) and dancing and stuff - were the locals at work and unable to join in or too scared of losing/uninterested in the game?
also, so many locals were asking us for england shirts, flags and scarves and were wearing celtic, newcastle, man utd, chelsea, brazil shirts other than ther own.
after the england game it was mostly "oh, never mind, good game - we still love england". this was even more annoying than if they'd said "ha! done you on pens, piss off home" as we'd probably have thought.