I bring before you....the NIMBY argument !

[Easy 10]

After a bit of trawling around, I came across this site...

http://www.angelfire.com/space/falmer/falmer_replies.htm

...in which Falmer Parish Council attempt to answer various points which have (apparently) been raised by the Albion during this application. I won't bother listing the other 8 points on that site, as after todays annoucement from the ODPM it is clear that they have already lost the arguments on all of them anyway (have a look at them for the comedy value if you like though). However, here is their response to the ONE remaining key issue following todays release from the ODPM. Bear in mind this was written PRIOR to todays announcement, as they seemingly don't bother updating their websites for months on end.

8. B&H Albion – "Falmer is the only possible site. Other sites all have problems."

Falmer PC – The Falmer site also has many problems but B&H Albion have sought solutions there (often expensive), hey, we don't do things by halfs eh ? but not at the alternative sites.

It has been demonstrated at the inquiry that the alternative site survey, the referendum and site selection process were seriously flawed. Sorry ?

Falmer PC members have visited a number of new stadiums around the country and researched many new stadiums and related football issues. Interesting. What stadiums ? What related issues ? Falmer PC also carried out its own survey of the alternative sites in B&H showing there are alternatives.Oh splendid. Care to elaborate ? It was shown at the inquiry that six out of eight new stadiums built in the last ten years do not have a railway station nearby What would you term "Nearby" ? Are we talking zimmer-frame distance or walking distance here ? and many have no better transport access than many of the alternative B&H sites. any specific examples ? You know, evidence, statistics, facts, figures, boring stuff like that ? Many of the alternative B&H sites are much larger than Falmer and would allow wider community and commercial enabling development. Once again, and sorry to be a pedant, but this is falling a little short on specifics. Care to elaborate where these larger sites are and how they are so clearly superior to Falmer ? No enabling development is possible at Falmer making it financially high risk. Oh I SEE, so because we can't bolt a bowling alley onto the side of the stadium, we'll end up unable to pay for it ? Mmm, what a good point, and so well explained.

Sorry, is it just me, or does anyone else think they might just have to come up with something a tad better than this ? And, err, pretty damn quick as well ? Perhaps they'd better put the old champagne bottles down (just for the time being) and perhaps come up with some carefully researched arguments as to why at least one of the seven other sites is more suited for the stadium.
Cos if this shit is anything to go by, I fear the champers will be running a little flat before long.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

For some reason, their website doesn't put their case for Waterhall (unlike the letter they sent to the ODPM in June):-

Waterhall - an ex tip, though now AONB and National Park, but so is Falmer ... The site is adjacent to two major roads ... Large site capable of wide and mixed enabling development.


And these people claim to have logic on their side? And that their main concern is to protect the countryside from development?

 

[Bwian]

I think that site hasn't been updated since the burning bush's flame died down.

I particularly like the way the are trying to say that Brighton has enough educational establishments...."although the college opposite Sheepcote Landfill is in danger of closing. A stadium built there with direct links to the college would help it "(I paraphrased that last little bit).

Those f**kwits are quite happy to suggest building on a landfill site 38 years before it is considered safe and sensible to do so. They are also happy to have the stadium built on any other AONB so long as it isn't near their shit village.

Think you're right Easy-they're going to need much more than that. Somebody should send a copy of all of their pathetic anti-Falmer campaigns, making sure that all lies and propaganda are highlighted. JP hates bullshit and Falmer villagers have it by the truckload!

 

[Easy 10]

For some reason, their website doesn't put their case for Waterhall (unlike the letter they sent to the ODPM in June):-

Waterhall - an ex tip, though now AONB and National Park, but so is Falmer ... The site is adjacent to two major roads ... Large site capable of wide and mixed enabling development.


And these people claim to have logic on their side? And that their main concern is to protect the countryside from development?

Perhaps even they realise that Waterhall is a complete non-starter, primarily due to it being on the northern side of the A27, and is therefore genuine open downland - sacrosanct to even think of building so much as a garden shed there.

It must be very difficult to avoid sounding like a NIMBY by saying "We don't want it on OUR area of outstanding natural beauty - why don't you put it on THAT one instead...?"

 

[beorhthelm]

i just love the answer to the first point:

1. B&H Albion – The Local Plan inspector in refusing a stadium at Falmer is denying B&H a stadium.

Falmer PC – The inspector is not denying a stadium for B&H but is stating, after hearing all the evidence and visiting the alternative sites, that Falmer is not the appropriate place. There are alternative sites. If Falmer didn’t exist an alternative would have already been found.

what a stunning piece of logic. If Falmer didnt exist, they wouldnt be there to argue the toss. SAKE.

 

[Easy 10]

Think you're right Easy-they're going to need much more than that. Somebody should send a copy of all of their pathetic anti-Falmer campaigns, making sure that all lies and propaganda are highlighted. JP hates bullshit and Falmer villagers have it by the truckload!

Absolutely.
To be honest, anyone here with a smidgeon of knowledge on this application, let alone a planning consultant or lawyer acting on our behalf, could comfortably drive a truck through each and every one of the arguments presented on that site (although we only now need bother with the one point now anyway). The fact that its not been updated since I was a 32 waist is one thing. But if that is an example of what thye can come up with to sing the praises of Sheepcote Valley etc, then they have got problems.

 

[clapham_gull]

That site has been around for a few years and is very rarely updated (updated today I think, and last time when Hoile released his report).

Sometimes I feel sorry for the maybe genuine anti-falmer brigade that are counting on somebody to produce that tosh.

But when you read it, you're right it just doesn't ring true at all.

Being brought up in a small village and remembering a few very committed but sadly narrow very minded people makes me feel a little bit sorry for them and their efforts (The Tour of Stadia etc...)

Its a little bit sad in truth.

I should point out that my dad who has lived in a village all his life is well behind the stadium and would actually like it in his village because that would be very convenient.

I personally don't feel any hatred towards them. Is it really ALL their fault that the Stadium went to public enquiry, is the current hold up ALL down to them ? I think we should cut out the anti Falmer village stuff and concentrate on the positives of the development.

But what I really don't understand is - where is their media campaign is, is it all being orchestrated behind the scenes ?, does it exist at all ?

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

i'd ignore that site easy- it's hideously out of date

 

[clapham_gull]

It reminds me off that Richard Briers character in Ever Decreasing Circles and his mate Howard.

I like that side of the British character but it can happily exist alongside a new Stadium on an old field.

.. however I think there's more than a touch of the Dunkirk spirit about us.

 

[clapham_gull]

Give them their dues, they did get round to updating the site today.

There has also been a little bit of activity here I understand...

 

[Easy 10]

I personally don't feel any hatred towards them. Is it really ALL their fault that the Stadium went to public enquiry, is the current hold up ALL down to them ? I think we should cut out the anti Falmer village stuff and concentrate on the positives of the development.

I'm sorry, but my heckles were roused severely by the sight of the Falmer residents sitting cross a table today with bottles of champagne, raising a toast to "their village being saved".

1. Contrary to the claims of SCR first thing this morning, and the subsequent persistant claims by the NIMBYS, the ODPM quite clearly did NOT turn down the plans today. Thankfully the later media reports accurately reflected this.

2. We are not building ON your f***ing village. It is ADJACENT to it, and will be landscaped and cut off from view from your precious duck pond. No-one will park in your village. No-one will even drive through it. You will only know of the stadiums existance if you crane your wrinkled old tortoise-necks above the trees, or (god forbid) step outside the village and cross the road. Then, yes, you might just catch sight of a magnificent stadium, where once there was a muddy field and some 60's university buildings.

Do I hate them ? Not personally, no. I don't even know them. But I hate what they stand for. I hate their narrow-mindedness. And I hate their selfishness. I hate their "anywhere but here" attitude, and the fact that a few dozen people are obstructing and deliberately denying this stadium to countless thousands of people, young and old, from this generation and the generations of the future.

They disgust me.

 

[beorhthelm]

also good for comedy value is their collection of pictures, showing the stunning downland that surrounds the village, with such tag lines as "Looking through a gate in the Falmer conservation area to the field where the stadium would be". It neglects to mention that the photo is taken from a spot on the west side of the B2123, and that there's a substantial wood between the village and that spot. Another classic is "A view From Falmer North to Falmer South. The stadium would be in the field on the right." YOU CANT SEE THE BLOODY FIELD FOR ALL THE TREES.

But the best has to be the arial photo: http://www.angelfire.com/space/falmer/pictures/aerial.htm which shows the village in relatioship to the A27, Sussex university and Brighton University. For me it shows just how LITTLE the stadium will impact the countryside, especially when you consider parts of the site is already built upon.

Sun Tzu tells us to "study your enemy".

We have little to fear.

 

[clapham_gull]

You're right - I've changed my opinion. I think the champagne did it



I am absolutely F*CKING livid with the BBC.

Me and my Brother work for the same company on different sites.

I've got internet access and he hasn't ( and he starts work at 7 )

So I got into work early to check out the news and email him. I had read the rumours about what was gonna happen and overheard a conversation by somebody very much in the know at the Stevenage game. So I was 99% percent sure of what was gonna be said today - no great surprise.

NSC went down like Jordon on an Ice Rink, so I checked the BBC Southern Counties sight and saw the headline.

The headline (which was quickly removed) quoted the Government as saying that the the Falmer plans had been "shelved". Quite strong that, I'm sure you'll agree.

I've still got a copy of the headline, if they try to deny it !!!!!

F*CKING QUOTING THE GOVERNMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I ASK YOU

"Shelved" where the f*ck did that come from - I AM FU*CKING IRATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So I contacted my brother with BBC information that all had gone tits up. My brother replied "Thats it then...."

It wasnt until good old Bracknell started posting on the other sites (hero) that I got a jist of what had happened. My theory being that somebody in the the other camp was straight on the phone to the BBC with some bollocks and they took it as read -

How else could that have happened ?

I have sent two complaints to the BBC, BBC website replied saying that the story had been corrected.

The other complaint to SCR has not been replied to.

Not surprised, at the end of the day it is just a provincial radio station.

HARTY WHERE ARE YOU ?

 

[Easy 10]

The headline (which was quickly removed) quoted the Government as saying that the the Falmer plans had been "shelved

You were one of the lucky ones then. I dreamed of "shelved".
As I clicked the "refresh" on the BBC Southern Counties website at around 9.30, I was greeted with the delightful headline of:

"GOVERNMENT TURN DOWN STADIUM PLANS"

This was later altered to the "shelved" headline, and then further retracted to the "Albion Plan Put On Hold". Bit of an about-turn from the first headline, as we all know.

Heads should roll at SCR for their reporting today. It was nothing short of a sick joke.

 

[clapham_gull]

"GOVERNMENT TURN DOWN STADIUM PLANS" you lucky, lucky bastard... what I forgot to mention was that the headline before that read "GOVERNMENT BURN DOWN STADIUM", "TURN DOWN" was a f*cking relief to me.

 

[Brovion]

Easy, I totally agree with you, the Falmer Villagers arguments against Falmer and in favor of other sites are pathetic, flawed and trivial.

So (and this is the thing I can't get my head around) why have TWO government inspectors examined all the facts - and basically agreed with the Nimbys? Both Hoile and Collyer have stated that the development at Falmer is 'inappropriate'.

Given the beaurocratic opposition to us I'm amazed we're still in there fighting (for which I think we can than Prescott). It's also why I'm still not 100% confident, what's to stop this third inspector 'toeing the party line' and saying "wait 38 years for Sheepcote or Shoreham Harbour"?

 

[Marshy]

really got my goat watching them pop champagne like they had won and it was all over......

Cant wait to wipe the smirks of there faces.