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[Football] How to fix VAR ?



AK74

Bright-eyed. Bushy-tailed. GSOH.
NSC Patron
Jan 19, 2010
1,189
Electrodes attached to the genitalia of the VAR. Get the decision right, nothing happens. Get it wrong, instant zap to the nuts.

That should ensure they're entirely focused on the task at hand.

Less Stockley Park, more Shockley Spark.
 




keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,648
All of the below:

- Copy the system used in rugby exactly. Full transparency, mic’d up refs, decisions broadcast to the home audience and live attendees in real time.

- Incorporate automated offsides.
Rugby doesn't have automated offsides. It doesn't use technology for offsides at all, other than looking at it
 




Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,941
Put this on a few other threads but in order of preference.

A) Remove it from the game entirely.

B) Have a greatly reduced system whereby the opposing captain gets one review per game, which he can keep if his appeal is upheld. The ref can have another look in real time, once only, from up to 3 camera angles. The captain must say very specifically what he's appealing for and against which player. No Stockley Park needed. Just a video guy to v quickly replay the action from the closest 3 cameras. This would get of the true howlers, but stop the incessant intrusive intervention.

C) Having to be having these same conversations year on year for the rest of my life.
 






RandyWanger

Je suis rôti de boeuf
Mar 14, 2013
6,028
Done a Frexit, now in London
Off-sides are coming down to cm/inches and GPS technology is still +/- a few metres so currently won't help.

Because they're drawing lines off peoples armpits, knee, foot, hand to get the outcome they want. They could easily use the GPS as the source of truth until they can roll out a better camera/sensor system
 


Brovion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 6, 2003
19,356
I'd add the question - How do you determine when the ball has been played? The ball will always be in contact with the foot/head for a reasonable fraction of a second.
Yes, I'd always thought that. When they start drawing their lines on the screen to review the infamous 'toenail' offsides they analyse to the nth degree whether a tiny part of the player was in front or not. They never analyse the precise moment when the ball was played. There's a rough "Yeah, it looks like he's kicked it" and that's it, all the focus switches to the receiving player.

And I think the rough call is the correct one and they should do it for the receiving player. A quick, "yeah he looks offside/onside, we'll stick with the ruling on the field" is all that's needed. Never gonna happen though. The genie is out of the bottle and the anal-retentives aren't going to let it get put back in
 


drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,042
Burgess Hill
All of the below:

- Copy the system used in rugby exactly. Full transparency, mic’d up refs, decisions broadcast to the home audience and live attendees in real time.

- Incorporate automated offsides.

- Complete overhaul of training and selection of ‘elite’ referees, including international recruitment and dispersing of cliques. This will help eliminate power dynamics between senior referees and juniors who daren’t “make their mentor look silly” or protect their mates.


The big one for me was how yesterday’s pairing of Salisbury and Attwell were allowed to work together after the debacle last season at Spurs. Absolute sheer incompetence.
Pretty much what I was planning to say. Fully mic'd up refs would catch any dissent so that would stop that and it would also allow the discussion to be heard by the fans when the VAR is in progress. Agree that I think there are a number of refs who think they can use their own interpretation of the laws. We've got rid of Dean and Atkinson so just need a few more to follow. Mike Riley has a lot to answer for.
 




keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,648
Incorporate automated offsides…
But you're saying the rugby system is good but we should add technology to it. I think the reason the rugby system works is partly to do with the almost complete lack of technology. Once you start disallowing goals/tries for inches on a computer but leave the rest of the stuff to interpretation you'd lose the point
 


Braggfan

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded
May 12, 2014
1,824
I think Postecoglou summed up it perfectly a few weeks back. VAR was supposed to reduce controversial decisions. It hasn't, in fact its increased them because every decision is now under scrutiny. Goal line technology is fine, it was needed, they brought it in and it works. So keep that and scrap VAR.
 


peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,329
I’m interested to know what the good people of NSC think are sensible (soccer) solutions to VAR massacring football as we know it… ?

I don’t think it’ll be abolished, but by God it needs fixing and fast. Last night was hilarious for us neutrals, but if I was a Wolves fan I’d be thinking we’ve effectively been deducted points already this season - akin to ourselves last, and it could well send them down. It’s nothing short of a disgrace.

For me, one fix would to stop slow motion replays when reviewing pens, slow motion (obviously) completely changes the ‘look’ of a given moment and any review should be subject to normal speed playback and if it’s not clear and obvious it’s not a pen or vice versa… everything looks worse in slow mo, even great goals… it’s always going to favour the attacking player as the slightest touch/contact is magnified ten fold… it’s bollocks and needs to stop.

Slow mo has a place for goal line decisions, ball in/out moments… but I’d even stop using it for marginal offsides, as again it clouds what is obvious in real time vs ridiculous slow mo.

Any other ideas ? so i can stand outside FA HQ with a cardboard placard 🪧 with a list of VAR faults … you know, like an insane person with nothing better to do 😂

Seriously though, this HAS to stop.
This may sound a bit OTT, but in such major issues, similar to the breakaway european league that affect all clubs, It may well help if all the main PL fans forums could act in unison.

"We the fans"........ if NSC, BBS, Red Cafe, Blue Moon, LFC Reds, Grand Old team, Kumb, Fighting Cock etc etc all came together with something like an open letter, underpinned by all main forums and/or petition it would make national news and add pressure.

Fact is, what is happening now is getting beyond ridiculous, and its getting worse not better, lots of fans across the board think so and we're powerless to do anything than sit and watch the spectacle of matchday get ruined by inconsistent, unaccountable idiots in the PGMOL and Stockley Park. Theyre sucking the life out of the beautiful game.

That much is "Clear and Obvious"
 




¡Cereal Killer!

Whale Oil Beef Hooked
Sep 13, 2003
10,197
Somewhere over there...
Introduce 'Clear & Obvious' for offside decisions.

If, after a quick glance, it is not clear that a mistake has been made, then just go with the on field decision. Basically scrap the lines.
Yep, make the linespeople make the call. And stay with the on field decision if not clear and obvious. No dicking about putting the flag up 20 seconds after a clear offside, just put the flag up. To tight to call and a goal is scored, then make a late decision and allow an appeal .

I also agree with the above about camera angles. There should be movable cameras that follow the ball and defenders, or just more cameras that allow better angles.
 


gripper stebson

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
6,657
VAR has runied football for me. To the extent that I am considering not bothering anymore.

The reason I love(d) football is that amazing 5 or 10 seconds when we score. The unbridled joy of being amongst like minded people - the feeling you can't describe to non football fans..

That's been taken away. I find myself sitting, arms crossed, when we score now - waiting to see if I'm allowed to celebrate.

Not for me.
 






WhingForPresident

.
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2009
16,164
Marlborough
Surely semi-automated offsides is a no-brainier? May as well get rid of linesmen and have them trained as dedicated VAR operators.

It really seems like VAR in its current guise is geared up to aid match-fixing.
 


Falmer Flutter ©

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2004
909
Petts Wood
Rugby doesn't have automated offsides. It doesn't use technology for offsides at all, other than looking at it
Also, Stockley Park is often reviewing incidents when play is still going on (ie, Forest's penalty on Saturday). Not sure I, or the players, would want to hear audio on the PA of some bloke asking Bazza if he's got a better angle while we're attacking the other end.
Right from the outset I was anti-VAR. Nothing has changed. If it has to stay then a challenge system is the best of a bad bunch of options.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,286
Because they're drawing lines off peoples armpits, knee, foot, hand to get the outcome they want. They could easily use the GPS as the source of truth until they can roll out a better camera/sensor system
only if they attach gps transponders on the armpits, knee foot, head etc. you're focusing on offside, and the problems there are with the rules.

edit. ah, unless the point is to use their GPS position to determine offside. that could be quite sensible. we need to change the rule eitherway so "any part" is removed from offside, along with the interfering, phase of play crap.
 
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Originunknown

BINFEST'ING
Aug 30, 2011
3,068
SUSSEX
Trouble is all VAR has done is introduce more referees and also VAR technicians into the mix each with their own flawed decision making potential.
Until an AI model can be developed and implemented to provide automated and repeatable judgement calls we will always have the potential for human cockups/interpretations.
 




Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
Not with that attitude it won't

If the fans get together and demand it, it will be gone
I don’t disagree, it’s just right now I suspect we (the fans) have less power than we ever have as money and commercial revenues dominate the game… I hope you’re right though, and we all stand up and vote with our feet until VAR/tech is used correctly or removed entirely.
 


Kosh

'The' Yaztromo
This may sound a bit OTT, but in such major issues, similar to the breakaway european league that affect all clubs, It may well help if all the main PL fans forums could act in unison.

"We the fans"........ if NSC, BBS, Red Cafe, Blue Moon, LFC Reds, Grand Old team, Kumb, Fighting Cock etc etc all came together with something like an open letter, underpinned by all main forums and/or petition it would make national news and add pressure.

Fact is, what is happening now is getting beyond ridiculous, and its getting worse not better, lots of fans across the board think so and we're powerless to do anything than sit and watch the spectacle of matchday get ruined by inconsistent, unaccountable idiots in the PGMOL and Stockley Park. Theyre sucking the life out of the beautiful game.

That much is "Clear and Obvious"
Yes, and clearly there’s worse things happening at sea etc. BUT this is our national game being made to look like a parody of a high stakes 90s game show… it’s SHIT.

I totally agree with the above approach.
 


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