How much longer will the NHS be around for?

[One Teddy Maybank]

The £15 came from a Tory, a friend but none the less a tory who knows more about the way they want the NHS to go than you and I want it to. Already the NHS has some privatised sectors, its paying private companies to do the work its been starved of the resources to do itself. The budgets the tory installed managers set are often breeched and the NHS pays a fine every time they miss their targets. Thats why in A&E people are left in Ambulances for busy periods because and they will be fined if they are not dealt within there are not enough beds. The only free point will be an initial assessment to see whats wrong with you and to check if you have the money or insurance to pay for the quality of treatment you will be given. So the next step is to firstly split a few things that will only be covered by medical insurance or private care, split out other areas that will be dealt with by private hospitals but funded by the NHS. That will only leave A&E and minor treatments as the free bit and then after a while announce that the NHS has collapsed so might as well be completely privatised.

What you have to realise is that the NHS is being run down slowly so it reaches the point where it has to fail and has to fall to privatisation .

Its what they did with council services and utilities why should it be any different.

Sorry, but your friend does not know what he's talking about. There are absolutely no plans to charge patients, though as I highlighted there should be (in my view) for people who don't attend and health tourists.

As for Tory installed managers - sorry but it really doesn't work like that. The financial envelope is set by the DoH, which is dependant on what the treasury provides. Simon Stevens as a public servant cannot involve himself in the politics and the £21billion figure that he stated in the earlier part of the year, applies to whoever is in power. In terms of fines for missing targets, CEOs are asked to explain themselves at a ministry level and I am unaware of any fine being applied. When they are missing treatment targets, a taskforce may be brought in to resolve. We have seen at Mid Staffs (whilst Labour was in power), the danger of having limited interventions at a higher level, and for what its worth, the power given to the CQC under Mike Richards was actually a positive step by the Tories.

In terms of privatisation, there is room for private providers (where they are subject to the same level of audit and scrutiny as the NHS), and Labour actually brought in the use of private services (and for the right reasons) as the NHS could not provide diagnostic tests quickly enough. IMO where the Tories have got it wrong is empowering CCGs in terms of service provision and where it is obtained from. However, there is no whole-scale privatisation of the NHS, though with the increasing costs of drugs, procedures and agency staff it is easy to see why the NHS is so cash-strapped.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Not long with 300,000 migrants coming in every year.

Health Tourism costs the NHS an estimated 0.15% of it's budget. It's at far greater risk in the hands of the Tories than it is from immigration.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Health Tourism costs the NHS an estimated 0.15% of it's budget. It's at far greater risk in the hands of the Tories than it is from immigration.

Given the budget is £115 billion I would say it's fairly significant, and re the Tories debatable, but only time will tell.

I share your concern though.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

People in other countries have heart attacks too, I've not heard of anybody writhing on the hospital steps while their PIN is checked

Oh for Heaven's sake! This thread is meant to be a collection of batty scare stories about bankers and starving serfs.

 

[Juror#13]

Health Tourism costs the NHS an estimated 0.15% of it's budget. It's at far greater risk in the hands of the Tories than it is from immigration.

Health, schools, housing are at crisis point and is a direct result of immigration.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Health, schools, housing are at crisis point and is a direct result of immigration.

I work in a school (in Birmingham where there are a few more immigrants than Sussex) and I can assure you we aren't in crisis. We are under funded though but I don't think we can blame that on immigration. Not to mention any crisis in the NHS and housing certainly isn't being caused soley by immigration.

 

[Juror#13]

I work in a school (in Birmingham where there are a few more immigrants than Sussex) and I can assure you we aren't in crisis. We are under funded though but I don't think we can blame that on immigration. Not to mention any crisis in the NHS and housing certainly isn't being caused soley by immigration.

Yes it is. 1996 you could buy a flat in Hove for £40k and everyone no matter what you earn t could afford to buy, 97, Labour won power and opened the doors for millions of unskilled migrants sent proprieties soaring beyond the reach of normal people. 96, classrooms had 15 pupils a class now they have 40. Prisons are over crowded with immigrants. 1/3 of new babies are from immigrants, (after British passports), Do you want me to carry on?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Yes it is. 1996 you could buy a flat in Hove for £40k and everyone no matter what you earn t could afford to buy, 97, Labour won power and opened the doors for millions of unskilled migrants sent proprieties soaring beyond the reach of normal people. 96, classrooms had 15 pupils a class now they have 40. Prisons are over crowded with immigrants. 1/3 of new babies are from immigrants, (after British passports), Do you want me to carry on?

You can carry all you like it doesn’t mean you'll be any less misinformed.

Firstly; someone who works in the teaching industry who, with all due respect, probably knows a lot more about schools and the problems they face has just told you that immigration hasn’t, in any way, caused a crisis and you argue with them without presenting any significant data what so ever? You claim class sizes have gone from 15 to 40 pupils but if you knew anything about the subject you would know that the average class size has continued to fall since the late nineties. You would also know the percentage of pupils in classes with over 30 pupils has fallen dramatically since 2002. So there's some free education for you.

As for the NHS I have already mentioned that health tourism accounts for less than 0.15% of the NHS budget. Furthermore immigrants are far less likely to use NHS services. I would argue that by increasing austerity measures and the handing over of NHS contracts to private providers has led to increased waiting times, as public health providers are having to cut back on services.

Finally EU immigrants have paid 34% more in taxes than they claim back from the state (around 4.5bn); non-European immigrants paid 2% more. Over the same period, British people paid 11% less in tax than they claimed back. Studies have also found that immigrants are 45% less likely to receive state benefits or tax credits than people native to the UK, and 3% less likely to live in social housing.

So these figures and my knowledge of the school system put a sizeable dent in your theories. But by all means, carry on.

 

[Soulman]

I work in a school (in Birmingham where there are a few more immigrants than Sussex) and I can assure you we aren't in crisis. We are under funded though but I don't think we can blame that on immigration. Not to mention any crisis in the NHS and housing certainly isn't being caused soley by immigration.

Birmingham schoos eh.........
Birmingham headteachers say they are subject to campaign of intimidation. From the Guardian no less.

Schools in city caught in upheaval from the Trojan Horse investigation are targeted with dead animals in playgrounds and death threats on social media Headteachers working in schools affected by the Birmingham Trojan Horse affair are facing a campaign of intimidation, including a death threat on Facebook and dead animals in the playground, it was claimed on Sunday.Many, many of our members have suffered greatly from rogue governorsThere is no place for extremism in our schools.
http://newsinbirmingham.uk/birmingham-headteachers-say-they-are-subject-to-campaign-of-intimidation/

 

[Hampster Gull]

Has it been closed down yet?

 

[Westdene Wonder]

You could double the NHS budget and it would still demand more. Quite simply it has morphed way beyond what it was founded for, and along with an aging population it is unsustainable in it's current form. Can we really afford, with a huge budget deficit, for the NHS to be providing lifestyle services such as cosmetic surgery, sex-change operations, gastric bands, as well as funding foreign patients who have paid nothing into the system. When we go abroad we have to get private insurance to cover us, how can it be fair that anyone can come here and use the service for free ? What is so shocking about a £10 charge for visiting your GP ? It might ease some of the pressure on GP's by dissuading all these hypochondriacs from clogging up the system. Go into any surgery and they have a poster on the wall stating how many £thousands have been wasted in the past month due to missed appointments, multiply that by every surgery !! If we aren't charging for appointments, surely we should at least charge for missed appointments ?

Could not agree more,recently had to attend A & E at weekend as our surgery like others is closed,the experience was dreadful,eventually ended up in a bed in a corridor for several hours,the available staff were working flat out but had no time to check whether patients required food/drink or needed the toilet,it was noticed that many were not speaking english between themselves also the number of patients escorted by a policeman,its a real eye opener and very worrying

 

[Westdene Wonder]

It is amazing that the many immigrants entering this country with no trade and poor grasp of our language and little money other than given to them by social services are paying such an amount in tax, its also well known that people entering this country are being taken direct to hospital despite the fact they have paid nothing into our health system.

 

[GT49er]

The NHS will be around as long as Britain exists! The only thing is, just as with Britain, it won't be the NHS as we know it.

 

[sir albion]

I work in a school (in Birmingham where there are a few more immigrants than Sussex) and I can assure you we aren't in crisis. We are under funded though but I don't think we can blame that on immigration. Not to mention any crisis in the NHS and housing certainly isn't being caused soley by immigration.

What a ridiculous post
Hundreds of thousands of extra people flocking in each year and it doesn't affect the housing and NHS crisis
How many hospitals are being built?and we're way behind on building new homes.If we get 300k immigrants in each year then how many homes is that alone that we need?6 immigrants squashed in a house is 50k of homes required alone each year.
The very few homes that are being build are not social housing(virtually none)and most look like they're build for the wealthier people going by new homes I see.
Reading has 30,000 poles alone and that's not meant to put a strain on things?
The government have no strategy and we're forced into having an open door for immigrants....Its up to us to get this sorted as its naturally not the thought of the immigrants.