How do you think Boris has handled it so far ?

[The Clamp]

Isn't that the long and the short of it? Worldwide there just isn't enough to go round. I have no idea how badly, or otherwise, the UK have performed compared to others with regard to PPE supply, but I do know that I have repeatedly read about shortages in nearly every other major cash-rich Western economy.

France had a stockpile of 140m face masks. That put them in a position of looking well-prepared for a health service that used 4m per week on average. During recent weeks, they've been using in excess of 40m/week. That stockpile, that looked good for over 8 months was suddenly going to run out in around 3 weeks.

Agreed. The equipment simply cannot be manafactured quickly enough.

 

[Jim D]

Badly?

Not necessarily, but I can't see any figures. Bearing in mind that there seems to be a marked slant toward BAME and older people when it comes to Covid deaths I wonder whether these countries have a similar demographic and, if so, how they fared. However, I suspect that theirs isn't the same as ours and, if so, whether this whole PPE problem might not be as critical as it seems.

 

[Weststander]

Not necessarily, but I can't see any figures. Bearing in mind that there seems to be a marked slant toward BAME and older people when it comes to Covid deaths I wonder whether these countries have a similar demographic and, if so, how they fared. However, I suspect that theirs isn't the same as ours and, if so, whether this whole PPE problem might not be as critical as it seems.

The BAME aspect might be partly because they have a higher proportion of diabetes, obesity and hypertension (according to the Guardian amongst others).

 

[drew]

Isn't that the long and the short of it? Worldwide there just isn't enough to go round. I have no idea how badly, or otherwise, the UK have performed compared to others with regard to PPE supply, but I do know that I have repeatedly read about shortages in nearly every other major cash-rich Western economy.

France had a stockpile of 140m face masks. That put them in a position of looking well-prepared for a health service that used 4m per week on average. During recent weeks, they've been using in excess of 40m/week. That stockpile, that looked good for over 8 months, was suddenly going to run out in around 3 weeks.

But isn't the main point that we have manufacturing capabilities that can be adapted to what supply the products we need that could be used but it seems that when offers have been made the Government has failed to respond.

 

[Jim D]

The BAME aspect might be partly because they have a higher proportion of diabetes, obesity and hypertension (according to the Guardian amongst others).

I was just watching the newspaper review on sky news and a report said that 75% of NHS staff deaths due to CV19 were BAME. This is far too big a figure to be coincidence.

 

[Weststander]

I was just watching the newspaper review on sky news and a report said that 75% of NHS staff deaths due to CV19 were BAME. This is far too big a figure to be coincidence.

Agreed. In the years ahead, it will be analysed to the hilt.

 

[Jim D]

But isn't the main point that we have manufacturing capabilities that can be adapted to what supply the products we need that could be used but it seems that when offers have been made the Government has failed to respond.

The problem isn't just with the Govt, it started with the NHS procurement processes. Although the NHS care capacity hasn't been breached their ordering processes have been. For years they had a cosy life where they ordered stuff to replenish falling stocks and got it exactly when they wanted it. Then along came a tidal wave which swamped everything (and every other country). Suddenly, everyone across the world raised urgent orders on PPE, testing kits, ICU equipment, etc. for immediate delivery and found that they were in a queue. Now, you could argue that we should have got in weeks previously and cornered the market, but that only happens in novels by Ian Fleming or Jeffrey Archer. The fact is that everyone was caught out.

 

[drew]

The problem isn't just with the Govt, it started with the NHS procurement processes. Although the NHS care capacity hasn't been breached their ordering processes have been. For years they had a cosy life where they ordered stuff to replenish falling stocks and got it exactly when they wanted it. Then along came a tidal wave which swamped everything (and every other country). Suddenly, everyone across the world raised urgent orders on PPE, testing kits, ICU equipment, etc. for immediate delivery and found that they were in a queue. Now, you could argue that we should have got in weeks previously and cornered the market, but that only happens in novels by Ian Fleming or Jeffrey Archer. The fact is that everyone was caught out.

I didn't realize the NHS had spare cash to pay for excess supplies and storage, my bad!!

 

[Billy the Fish]

There were some delays last month while suitable vendors, able to produce tested, quality controlled equipment were sourced. By mid March vendors had been found and 1.5 Billion Euros (£1.3bn) of equipment had been purchased. This is currently being successfully distributed to members and has been since last month.

In contrast, GB got a delivery of PPE today from Turkey that remains sitting in crates on a runway.

Surely you're describing the same process twice, but once with a positive spin and once with a negative spin.

There will certainly be pros and cons to being in the EU scheme, I guess everyone is just falling back to their Brexit thread trenches. I'm not sure if anyone on this forum is in a position to judge which organisation is performing better, sounds like much of a muchness to me

 

[Baker lite]

Yet again, you have comprehensively misunderstood what the scheme is, or how it works. It is a joint members scheme that EU members, including GB signed up to in 2014 after an H1N1 outbreak highlighted flaws in our ability to source and purchase equipment and vaccineseing a part of the scheme requires a financial contribution that gets pooled and enables the bulk purchase of PPE and other medical equipment from suitable vendors. Ensuring all member countries get quality equipment and speedy procurement.
GB are eligible for this scheme until Dec 2020. Our government decided not to take part in this round of procurement. Then claimed they didn't get the email despite being signed up to the scheme since 2014. Had they forgotten we were eligible?


There were some delays last month while suitable vendors, able to produce tested, quality controlled equipment were sourced. By mid March vendors had been found and 1.5 Billion Euros (£1.3bn) of equipment had been purchased. This is currently being successfully distributed to members and has been since last month.

In contrast, GB got a delivery of PPE today from Turkey that remains sitting in crates on a runway.

Those are the facts. I cannot find individual unit numbers but £1.3bn gets you a fair amount.

As an aside, please don't use a global crisis to further your anti-EU stance. It makes you look like a bit of a numbskull, especially when you have demonstrated you don't understand the scheme in the first place.

Did part of that £1.3 billion kitty come from the money that the EU fined Italy?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Gung-ho talk of "let's send this thing packing!" is beginning to sound increasingly hollow.

 

[keaton]

Isn't that the long and the short of it? Worldwide there just isn't enough to go round. I have no idea how badly, or otherwise, the UK have performed compared to others with regard to PPE supply, but I do know that I have repeatedly read about shortages in nearly every other major cash-rich Western economy.

France had a stockpile of 140m face masks. That put them in a position of looking well-prepared for a health service that used 4m per week on average. During recent weeks, they've been using in excess of 40m/week. That stockpile, that looked good for over 8 months, was suddenly going to run out in around 3 weeks.

So because a country that stockpiled is at risk of running out that makes our lack of supplies look better? I don't get that argument.

 

[Rugrat]

Do we know what the total number of 'front line' healthcare workers are for Spain, Italy and France? And then, do we know how many have died? I would like to get a view on how the health services in these countries fared with little or no PPE.

I don't know about anything other than the Canaries where they are about 25% of all cases. But I also understand (uncorroborated) that they don't have the PPE issues that they have on mainlaind

Here's the update from yesterday

 

[Bozza]

So because a country that stockpiled is at risk of running out that makes our lack of supplies look better? I don't get that argument.

The UK had a stockpile too. As illustrated, unprecedented events can make the well-prepared look ill-prepared almost overnight.

 

[Machiavelli]

But isn't the main point that we have manufacturing capabilities that can be adapted to what supply the products we need that could be used but it seems that when offers have been made the Government has failed to respond.

Well, this I agree with. Germany and several Asian economies have a far more productivist logic, rather than merely treating the world as a giant marketplace. That said, it'll take one hell of a reconfiguration to move from where we are to where they are in a general sense. That said, in the more particular sense, the UK is well placed to take advantage of some of the features related to CV19, most obviously in vaccine design, testing and production through the prevalence of the pharmaceutical industry within the economy.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Did Spain get missed by the PPE fairy?

Most nurses in Spain worked during Covid-19 crisis without protective equipment, study shows

The majority of nurses in Spain say they have been working during the Covid-19 crisis without enough protective equipment, according to a study by the Spanish College of Nursing (CGE).

Of the 11,000 nurses surveyed across Spain, 74% said there were no masks in their work unit and 55% reported a lack of protective gowns.

"Health workers didn't have the most basic protection equipment against the virus, which could explain the extremely high number of workers infected in our country,” CGE, the professional body for the Spanish nursing profession, said in a press release on Wednesday.

However, the Spanish College of Nursing believes there are many more cases among health workers than have been reported, as the study reveals two-thirds of nurses reported having symptoms but weren't able to get tested. The report also reveals 5% of nurses had to work with symptoms. Madrid, the hardest hit by the virus of Spain’s 17 regions, was also the region with the most number of nurses who reported having symptoms compatible with Covid-19.

In a lengthy report about Covid-19, the Ministry of Health said “the high contagion rate among health care workers could be attributed to different factors.” In the initial phase especially when there was less knowledge about how the virus was transmitted, the report said, cases “could have been generated among health care workers improperly protected.”

The College of Nursing study also reveals that many workers said they didn't receive enough Covid-19-specific training to treat infected patients or use the special protective equipment. Some nurses also reported receiving "poor quality" supplies, such as having to reuse or wash masks and gowns, spending up to 14 hours with the same equipment, and reusing it the next day.

https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-...22-20-intl/h_375d35cc5c8853cce84e44ca31e3285a​

France and italy have had widely-reported shortages too.

I’m missing your point I think. If they haven’t got nearly enough, and they get SOME - they’ve still not got enough, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t BETTER than it would have been.

Isn't that the long and the short of it? Worldwide there just isn't enough to go round. I have no idea how badly, or otherwise, the UK have performed compared to others with regard to PPE supply, but I do know that I have repeatedly read about shortages in nearly every other major cash-rich Western economy.

This is absolutely true, but surely it supports, rather than contradicts [MENTION=33848]The Clamp[/MENTION] position? If there is a worldwide shortage of supply, then you want to give yourself every possible chance of sourcing what you can of it - from a collective bargaining position perhaps, rather than wantonly cutting yourself off from a potential avenue of supply?

 

[Jim D]

I didn't realize the NHS had spare cash to pay for excess supplies and storage, my bad!!

I don't think they did have spare cash but the govt said they would get 'whatever it takes' to tackle this. The problem being that whatever they wanted to purchase wasn't on the shelves.

 

[Jim D]

Yet again, you have comprehensively misunderstood what the scheme is, or how it works. It is a joint members scheme that EU members, including GB signed up to in 2014 after an H1N1 outbreak highlighted flaws in our ability to source and purchase equipment and vaccineseing a part of the scheme requires a financial contribution that gets pooled and enables the bulk purchase of PPE and other medical equipment from suitable vendors. Ensuring all member countries get quality equipment and speedy procurement.
GB are eligible for this scheme until Dec 2020. Our government decided not to take part in this round of procurement. Then claimed they didn't get the email despite being signed up to the scheme since 2014. Had they forgotten we were eligible?


There were some delays last month while suitable vendors, able to produce tested, quality controlled equipment were sourced. By mid March vendors had been found and 1.5 Billion Euros (£1.3bn) of equipment had been purchased. This is currently being successfully distributed to members and has been since last month.

In contrast, GB got a delivery of PPE today from Turkey that remains sitting in crates on a runway.

Those are the facts. I cannot find individual unit numbers but £1.3bn gets you a fair amount.

As an aside, please don't use a global crisis to further your anti-EU stance. It makes you look like a bit of a numbskull, especially when you have demonstrated you don't understand the scheme in the first place.

Do you know if all the £1.3 billion of 'stuff' is being delivered in one lot, or is it being staggered - if it's all in one lot then I'll be staggered. If it's being staggered do we know what the rationale is for delivering to those that need it? For example, is it in proportion to each countries need or their order size? If it's order size then I see that being open to abuse as larger and richer countries could deliberately over-order knowing that they'll get a larger proportion of the delivery immediately but not necessarily needing all of it right now. Which raises another question - who's dealing with the logistics of these deliveries? Are they going to a central repository or are they being shipped directly to those individual countries - and if so in what proportion? I doubt that you have the answers to all of these questions but you seem to have many more of the facts than some of us, so I see you as the one to ask.

Also, when you talk about an anti-EU stance, I would advise against using a pro-EU stance too. 'GB got a delivery of PPE today from Turkey that remains sitting in crates on a runway' is extremely pejorative and, as I suspect you know, not true.

 

[beorhthelm]

where is Boris Johnson

 

[Hugo Rune]

where is Boris Johnson

The government are doing no worse without him, infact they are probably seen as more credible without a compulsive liar at the helm.

Let’s hope he doesn’t come back until he is 100% recovered. It could well be a few more months one would hope. Chequers provides the ideal space for him to recuperate and get away from work, he should be writing another book rather than worrying about the Country, getting him back too early will harm both him and the Country.