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How do you think Boris has handled it so far ?

How do you think Boris has handled Covid 19 so far ?

  • Superb

    Votes: 27 10.8%
  • Very Good

    Votes: 63 25.1%
  • Good

    Votes: 56 22.3%
  • Average

    Votes: 22 8.8%
  • Poor

    Votes: 44 17.5%
  • Very Poor

    Votes: 39 15.5%

  • Total voters
    251
  • Poll closed .


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,219
Goldstone
Johnson’s genius lies in his self promotion. He gambled with the thing he values the most (his political career) in the same way he gambled on the initial ‘herd immunity’ based strategy. Seems like he signed off up to ‘100,000’ deaths initially before the scientists came back with the real figure’250,000’
I saw the 250,000 figure put forward by Imperial College, but that looks a bit low to me.

Patrick Vallance said we'd need 60% of our population infected in order to achieve herd immunity. 60% of the UK's population = 40 million people. To say that that number would overwhelm the NHS is an understatement of epic proportions. If 1% of those died, we'd be looking at 400,000 deaths.

The government really ****ed up.
 






kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,120
Testing testing? I was sent some confidential stuff recently. My name is the same as a senior bod at my uni/trust/hospital. We often get each other's mail (oh, how we laugh). There has been no mention of testing. But testing is what we need. Should I help my vulnerable neighbours when my 'cold' abates, or should I hunker down till the real Cov-19 hits me? I have no ****ing clue, and neither does anyone else.

I have the same issue. I am 99% sure I have had it. If I knew I was now immune I could help others (including my older relatives). But I can't risk anything without being tested.
 


kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,120
In fairness to Boris, he's not the worst on No.10....

From The Times:

In January, Whitty told the cabinet: “It either stays in China or it will get everywhere.” For two months the government had time to prepare, but Johnson’s instincts were to resist a life-changing crackdown. “There was a lot of talk about how this was just a bit of flu,” one senior Tory recalled.

Dominic Cummings, the prime minister’s senior aide, became convinced that Britain would be better able to resist a lethal second wave of the disease next winter if Whitty’s prediction that 60% to 80% of the population became infected was right and the UK developed “herd immunity”.

At a private engagement at the end of February, Cummings outlined the government’s strategy. Those present say it was “herd immunity, protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.

At the Sage meeting on March 12, a moment now dubbed the “Domoscene conversion”, Cummings changed his mind. In this “penny-drop moment”, he realised he had helped set a course for catastrophe. Until this point, the rise in British infections had been below the European average. Now they were above it and on course to emulate Italy, where the picture was bleak. A minister said: “Seeing what was happening in Italy was the galvanising force across government.”

By Friday, March 13, Cummings had become the most outspoken advocate of a tough crackdown. “Dominic himself had a conversion,” a senior Tory said. “He’s gone from ‘herd immunity and let the old people die’, to ‘let’s shut down the country and the economy.’”

Cummings had a “meeting of minds” with Matt Hancock, the health secretary, who wanted stronger action to prevent NHS hospitals being swamped. Department of Health officials had impressed on Hancock that the death rate in Wuhan province was 3.4% when the hospitals were overrun and 0.7% elsewhere in China.

Johnson had also been queasy about the previous original approach. “Boris hated the language of ‘herd immunity’ because it implied that it was OK for people to die,” a senior source said. “Matt hated the language because it implied we had given up. You’ve got to fight.”

Proof (as if we didn't already know it) that it is the unelected Cummings running the country, not Johnson.
 


kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,120
Correct. When Johnson said take it on the chin and use herd immunity, we were saying you need vaccinations for herd immmunity.
He may have used experts but the experts got it wrong, and have done a U turn.

He chose which experts to listen to, on the advice of Cummings. He ignored the exoerts at the WHO and the evidence of how they were dealing with it in other countries. We were the only country pursuing herd immunity and it will cost many lives.
 




stingray

Active member
Jan 23, 2018
276
We are not testing, we did not trace or track people, and we have totally insufficient supply of medical gear.

"Taiwan, helped perhaps by having an epidemiologist as vice-president, started tracing passengers from Wuhan as soon as China warned of a new type of pneumonia in the city last December, before Covid-19 was identified. Social distancing, ramped-up testing and contact-tracing followed soon after.

Most western countries did little, apart from developing a modest testing capacity – apparently gambling on the disease being contained elsewhere, as previous threatened epidemics, including Sars in 2002-03 and more recently Ebola and Mers, had been.

The first coronavirus cases in Taiwan and Italy came only 10 days apart. On Sunday Taiwan, which has deep cultural and economic ties to China, has recorded just 153 cases and two deaths. Italy has more than 47,000 cases and 4,032 people have died."

From the Guardian. Boris has done a poor/average job so far.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,735
The Fatherland
I saw the 250,000 figure put forward by Imperial College, but that looks a bit low to me.

Patrick Vallance said we'd need 60% of our population infected in order to achieve herd immunity. 60% of the UK's population = 40 million people. To say that that number would overwhelm the NHS is an understatement of epic proportions. If 1% of those died, we'd be looking at 400,000 deaths.

The government really ****ed up.

It’s also worth pointing out this 60% estimate was based on limited data. This is in itself isn’t an issue because this is all he, and we have, but that 60 could be 80% according to the report I read. Equally it could be 40...that’s some gamble.
 


NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,586
Way way way out of his depth. He is flailing around over the Mariana Trench, trotters splashing here, there and everywhere as he attempts to keep his snout above water.

The best thing about Johnson is that he is not Trump. That’s not saying much. I suspect that he is also handling this crisis better than leaders in Iran, Russia and Myanmar so I’m not going to give him zero credit.

But he needs more than that, much more. Being Prime Minister is the most important job in our Country. There should never ever be a time when the scrutiny on the current incumbent is dimmed, never a moment where we say ‘It’s a difficult job, he is doing his best’.

The British PM should be the best of us. He is nowhere near.

He should be a genius at leading. And I mean genius. That’s what our great nation deserves. His genius, however, is in self promotion, climbing the greasy poll and being, frankly, very lucky.

He seems to display some of the worst characteristics you see amongst our populous. Entitlement, arrogance, selfishness, ignorance, buffoonery and damned right self interested nastiness.

The Egoist.
And Trump, like Nige, is a Egotist, ‘everyone for themselves’. Johnson is something much worse, an egoist, ‘everyone for me’. Every action he takes is for the greater good, but not the greater good of the Country, the greater good of himself. You can see this in almost all his actions. It’s clouded in popularism but that’s exactly why he follows that principle, he is tricking everyone into thinking he cares about them when actually, he couldn’t give a shit.

The Political genius.
Johnson’s genius lies in his self promotion. He gambled with the thing he values the most (his political career) in the same way he gambled on the initial ‘herd immunity’ based strategy. Seems like he signed off up to ‘100,000’ deaths initially before the scientists came back with the real figure’250,000’ and he realised that even the dumbest of his voters might have a problem with that. A U-Turn spun as ‘the model has changed’.

Just get that into your heads, he signed off a strategy that could see 100,000 people die in the Country when only 3,000 or so have died in China. Boris the butcher is a man who will take a decision like this without proper questioning
or scrutiny. Asking his scientists ‘why no one else in the world is doing this?’ Would have been a good start. He just didn’t care.

Another place Johnson’s genius lies is in manipulation. He understands the type of voters that got him elected. He understands the sort of people who are the majority in this Country. He knows that they don’t like being told what to do by either Brussels or himself. He knows that they’ll get upset when pubs are closed. He knows that it’s his biggest supporters who are those selfish people who are bulk buying. These are the ‘look after No.1 first’ people. He has tried to pacify them by being populist and not having an early lock down. That’s going to cost thousands of lives.

He also knows that very very few people who work in schools and hospitals voted for him, they are the real heroes we all rely on now. Talk to someone who works in either of these areas and you’ll find the sentiment I’m expressing here.

He is not making decisions?
Absolute bullshit. He realised some days ago that his decisions were going to cost thousands of extra lives. Nobody should be in any doubt that he is being given two, three or possibly more options when he is taking these big decisions (of which has mostly avoided). He must balance scientific advice with economic, social and practical issues but his first thought is always to look after No.1. How dare he try and pass off responsibility for this **** up, it’s his ****ing job. But people believe none of this is his fault. The same people who believed Labour caused the financial crash of 2008 I suspect. All leaders are taking scientific advice, the smart ones are listening to the WHO, the deplorable ones are symbolically pointing to scientists saying ‘it’s not my fault if this goes t**s up!’.

He is NOT a leader.
People obey him not because of his leadership style or personality, they do it because of his office. He has no gravitas, you just don’t think he is a serious human being, probably because his life has been about self promotion instead of wanting to improve the Country. He has no real Political beliefs other than power for himself, he has lurched over to socialist politics that would make Corbyn blush and has crippled the economy more than Corbyn ever could have done, all for a popularist agenda.

What we needed in a crisis was a Thatcher, Blair or even Cameron. But our Brexit self-harming has allowed the worst type of politician to sneak in and snatch the helm. Someone with no real strategic thinking, someone who can’t take non-popularist decisions. Someone totally ill equipped to serve his Country in our hour if need because he has only ever served his own needs.

No other leader in the world (except Trump) seems to be pretending to delegate decisions and responsibilities. Only a profound coward would do this.

His language.
It’s just not the language of a credible leader like Macron, Ardern or Varadkar that this swine spouts! Everything he had said for weeks was qualified with a ‘may’, ‘might’ or a ‘could’. He hasn’t committed to anything. He is concerned with saving his own bacon first. Contrast this to the almost parental, paternal and caring actions of Ardern and Varadkar, Prime Minister’s of Islands who understand Island mentality, they shut down those Islands very quickly to protect their citizens. They saw a danger to their flocks and acted bravely and decisively. They cared. They didn’t care about ‘freedoms’ or ‘economic interests’. They are in control currently and have infection rates a lot lower than us.

Mistake 1:
Covid-19 is born in China and quickly spreads. Where is the planning, where is the screening?
What did Johnson do? Were we preparing testing kits? Writing actions plans? Building ventilators? No. Nothing as far as I can tell. China is such a long way away, it seemed the government thought the pandemic would never hit. I realise that there has never been a proper plan or contingency for this sort of things and you can blame governments going back decades for this but at least copy a Country that does have proper models and planning rather than make everything up as you go along (a technique Johnson sadly trusts as it got him to No.10).

Mistake 2:
The initial ‘shark attack in Amity Island’ as the Sussex-Super-Spreader is out in China Town, Singapore, and picks up Covid-19. He jets to his doctor friend Alpine Chalet in France and promptly infects the party there. They return home and are hunted down by the press like foxes being mercilessly chased by crazed ex Bullingdon Boys and slaughtered by their wretched hounds.

I digress.

Nobody contracted Covid-19 in this country in that initial round of Sussex-by-the-sea cases, they all caught it in France. This was Johnson’s moment to be the hero, his moment to sit alongside his spiritual guru Churchill in the eyes of History. But he ****ed it.

Close the beach, there is a Great White swimming amongst us! Shutting down the borders and introducing a 14 day quarantine at this point would have saved thousands of lives and billions upon billions of pounds.

The true father of Brexit, Farage had seen this mistake and was screaming for closed borders but Johnson overlooked this decision. It was going to cost money, billions maybe in the short term, but did his pork parade want it?Importantly, the gammon had not echoed Farage’s call, the gammon were waiting for Johnson to act first. They were his piglets now, they’d jettisoned their original and genuine leader as he has about as much power as you or I. Gammon know where the pineapple is!

Johnson has still not protected our borders but it’s clearly way too late for that.

Mistake 3: CRITICAL
This one is probably going to be the one to cost thousands of lives.

‘Get me the best experts in this Country’ he would have blustered. ‘They can shoulder the blame’ he would have thought. But did he get the right experts? Did he ****. His biggest strength in the eyes of his gammon fanatics is his love for Britain. This is also one of his biggest weaknesses. Assuming we have the best of everything and not looking to emulate World class practice elsewhere or the advice of the likes of WHO will define him as a PM.

Which one our Scientists would have had the bravery to say, ‘Actually Sir, we’re about 5 years behind the likes of Singapore with our modelling and preparation for pandemics, we should just copy them, it will save thousands of lives’.

I feel so desperately sorry for Vallance and Whitty. They have been set-up by an utterly ruthless pig of a politician who wants them to shoulder all the responsibilities of the extra thousands who will die. I remember Blair doing this to some advisor. He killed himself.

There will be a public enquiry have no doubt. The porcine prince will blame the scientists, he’ll blame the public, he blame anyone but himself. Hopefully his gammon army will have had the fried eggs removed from their eyes and he’ll be forced to resign and return to his sty.

Now, I’m pretty certain we’ll get the big jump in deaths that Italy had (to three figures per day) either tomorrow or Monday.
9c92cd2c73343df7acef7cad30ffeffd.jpg


I’m shocked that so many people are prepared to accept this. The boar king is delivering the same figures as Italy and people think he’s doing alright! WTF! He is in charge. Only he can take responsibility for this.

To be honest, we all need to get behind the government now, mistakes made weeks ago can’t be undone. We need to take their advice (for Johnson won’t force spam into a tin until there is no other choice) and stay at home whilst we wait to be told what to do and hopefully, receive serious consequences including fines or prison if we don’t.

I’m not going to criticise the government again until this is all over, there is nothing to be achieved in doing that, the truth will come out when this hell is over.

But mark my words, when Covid-19 has left our noble shores, I’ll be on the streets of London with hundreds of thousands of others calling for the head of the hog boss and holding him personally to account for the needless extra deaths of thousands and thousands.

He has ****ed this up big style.

Your post Sir deserves 100,000 Thumbs Ups
 




RossyG

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2014
2,630
There seems to be a lot of uncritical praise for the experts at the WHO, but remember, up to a month ago they were telling countries that there was no need to restrict international travel, this was when Britain was getting direct flights from Wuhan.

Oh, and the once respected (but certainly not for a while) Lancet agreed.

D1342D93-3CD6-44D6-9DB0-8C97BFCD8058.jpeg
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,219
Goldstone
It’s also worth pointing out this 60% estimate was based on limited data. This is in itself isn’t an issue because this is all he, and we have, but that 60 could be 80% according to the report I read. Equally it could be 40...that’s some gamble.
I've seen estimates of 60 to 80% for herd immunity. I've not seen anything suggest 40% would do it. But even if it were 'only' 40%, that's still 26.5 million people infected. I don't understand how anyone at the top thought that was a workable solution.
 






Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,219
Goldstone
I have the same issue. I am 99% sure I have had it. If I knew I was now immune I could help others (including my older relatives). But I can't risk anything without being tested.
What could you help your older relatives do - and what will they do if you don't help them? Because not helping them also carries a risk. If you really are 99% sure you've had it, then a less than 1% chance of infecting them is probably a better chance than them going without your help.
 


kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,120
What could you help your older relatives do - and what will they do if you don't help them? Because not helping them also carries a risk. If you really are 99% sure you've had it, then a less than 1% chance of infecting them is probably a better chance than them going without your help.

Agree. It's a balancing act. If it comes to a situation where I am definitely needed to help, I will. Food delivery is a concern at the moment. Not worth risking social visits, though. Can't doing anything at the moment anyway, as I am still isolating.
 
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Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,219
Goldstone
I feel so desperately sorry for Vallance and Whitty. They have been set-up by an utterly ruthless pig of a politician who wants them to shoulder all the responsibilities of the extra thousands who will die.
No one made Vallance spout the bullsh*t idea that we should go for herd immunity. He's the UK’s chief scientific adviser. He should have known it was a terrible idea that would cost hundreds of thousands of lives, but he defended it.

The buck stops with Boris and I'm happy to blame him too for ballsing this up, but I don't understand the notion of feeling sorry for Vallance.
 




beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,332
Way way way out of his depth. He is flailing around over the Mariana Trench, trotters splashing here, there and everywhere as he attempts to keep his snout above water.

he is out of his depth, but most of this post is aftertiming. was he supposed to ditch the CMO and CSA and if so who should be appointed that would have made all those decisions differently? where is the preparation from PHE with a £4.5bn budget and other organisations? he has certainly made mistakes, so far they seem the same as every other country in europe, as none has managed the tranistion from liberal society to lockdown.
 


El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,716
Pattknull med Haksprut
63% approval rating

This is because he's good at telling people what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. As a consequence people are still acting like utter ****wits.

Being popular comes easy to Johnson, being a statesman and a leader is completely different, and he's failed here totally in what is the biggest crisis facing this country for 75 years.

On Friday night when asked if he was going to see his mother on Mother's Day he replied he "hoped to see her". A few hours later when the PR team realised what a balls up he had made it was claimed he meant to say 'via phone or Skype'.
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,325
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
This is because he's good at telling people what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. As a consequence people are still acting like utter ****wits.

Yep, this. Populist leaders not doing well so far in this crisis. Trump even worse. Ironically the ones who seem to have handled it best have been the Chinese!
 


CliveWalkerWingWizard

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2006
2,671
surrenden
Boris has complete faith in Cummings, cummings believed that herd immunity was the way forward, giving us a different approach to every other country. Then the complete uturn. It will be interesting to see if China will get a second wave of infections, it feels like every thing we have done has been 2/3 weeks too late. I don’t believe the ‘fatigue’ part of the model, if we are isolating for 3 months we can isolate for 4. Johnson was balancing the economy with lives and looks to have made several mistakes already. These mistakes may cost 100,000s of lives.
 






Motogull

Todd Warrior
Sep 16, 2005
9,897
Agree. It's a balancing act. If it comes to a situation where I am definitely needed to help, I will. Food delivery is a concern at the moment. Not worth risking social visits, though. Can't doing anything at the moment anyway, as I am still isolating.

I'm with you in spirit. The thing is, even with antibodies, you could be unwittingly transporting the virus.
 


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