They were too busy thinking up slogans at that time.
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
How do you think Boris has handled it so far ?
- Thread starter Uncle Spielberg
- Start date
They were too busy thinking up slogans at that time.
GT49er
Well-known member
Corrected for you. Anyway, what's that got to do with "How do you think Boris has handled it so far?"
Si Gull
Way Down South
Perhaps how he's handling it so far has been impacted by ignoring the warnings in Operation Cygnus, something he was, presumably, aware of?
That's a different kind of preparedness. In my view this is irrelevant in the present context. Modellers (for it is they) can model any catastrophe, with a model containing multiple variables which they can alter: infectivity, virulence, severity of symptoms, effects of age and illness, effects of mild, moderate or severe social restrictions. Even the bloody weather. This means that for Covid-19, which has one of several hundred possible characteristics as a virus, there are a power function of possible outcomes as each other variable is changed. This means there are thousands of possible responses to a viral pandemic, dependent on the characteristics of the virus and what measures people are prepared to accept to mitigate against the contagion.
So in simple terms, you cannot plan for 'a' pandemic.
As far as the NHS is concerned, that is a different matter. Yes I agree it has been underfunded.
It has been my view that because the tories vehemently opposed the creation of the NHS, and despite one nation tories embracing it later, most tories have always thought private is acceptable, or preferable, or best, so tories have been happy to see the NHS decline. Blair aided and abetted in that as part of his strategy to make labour look business friendly.
The NHS is a socialist entity, and the emergent Thatcheriste tories were instinctively opposed to it. So, underfunding it in order to encourage those with the cash to go private really kicked in in the 80s, and this undermines the NHS further. This process has become so engrained that most tories these days probably don't realise it is happening.
As I have said before, if I were a tory I would seek to undermine the NHS, the BBC and state schooling - all are 'wrong 'uns' of entities. It is a testament to how mentally agile (or weird) we are as humans, forgetting our roots, the ideas that created our politics, letting bygones be bygones, etc., that very few people actively campaign now against the NHS, yet nor do most realise how much it has been damaged by underfunding and the waves of 'reorganizations' (designed to save money).
But my guess is that needs must, and a tory government will now bung insane amounts of money into the NHS. Perhaps another example of unintended consequemces.
GT49er
Well-known member
As Foreign Secretary, a post he was deliberately given to keep him quiet, possibly not that much. Wouldn't have been involved in the decision, perhaps?
No, you didn't, but some people (as stated in my post) did.
The idea that the Government spent weeks sitting on their hands with their fingers in their ears is almost on a level with the bloke who claimed they had years/decades to preparefacepalm
You are of course right that in a situation of this nature the government has to be guided by experts. The response still seemed flawed to me though. From the public awareness campaign to ramping up testing capabilities to ventilator acquisition. Perhaps we need new experts.
This isn't an anti-tory thing; I said the same about Spain's leftist government. The day before the schools were shut down I was at the doctor's with my partner and there wasn't so much as a wash your hands poster on display.
I should add, this has just been my personal perception. I'm very much viewing it in layman's terms, though I feel I've kept myself well informed throughout.
Last edited:
Herr Ing Gull
Active member
- Sep 3, 2014
- 73
This is all true BUT this is why an essential part of emergency planning involves exercises. So when a googly turns up the people in charge have some experience of how to respond. Also I expect there will be aspects that will be common to all pandemics and can be planned for; basic PPE springs to mind.
My expertise wasn't with pandemics but explosions, gas clouds and suchlike and if someone had held an exercise (operation cygnet perhaps), found a failing and not done something about it I'd have been looking for the Enforcement Notice template
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
GT49er
Well-known member
Yeh, that's a fair enough opinion. I guess that once we're through this what we'll never know is what differences different strategies and actions would have made - would strategy X have been better than strategy Y - or would it have made it worse?
nicko31
Well-known member
Unfortunately since then they've had their hands full sorting out their self made panic pandemic.
Why not join the next cabinet meeting on (encrypted) Zoom and tell them what you think?
Image/details courtesy of bungling Boris. https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1244985949534199808?s=20
Image/details courtesy of bungling Boris. https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1244985949534199808?s=20
nicko31
Well-known member
Is Zoom actually secure? You'd think Microsoft teams would have been a safer bet..
https://www.ft.com/content/bdedc70b-e559-489e-bfa0-445b9c882f7b
Of course it doesn't help when you publish your zoom ID....
Last edited:
No.
It is if you use its features properly (at least that's what we've been told). Encryption enabled, guests need permission to enter from host (and a password if required by the host), only attendees with a given email domain can join etc.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
You may have got some thumbs up for this, but a London-based epidemiologist for FIND, Rangarajan Sampath, that advises the government who also works for WHO has just indicated on C4 News that he was advising the government to buy tests, scale up production, etc, etc in early January. See:
https://www.channel4.com/news/25000...ng-to-be-adequate-finds-dr-rangarajan-sampath
Machiavelli
Well-known member
How are you explaining the 'herd immunity' phase that was radically at odds with what WHO were then saying, and have been saying for months?
I am not explaining it, because I don't know what you are asking.
Herd immunity is caused either by most people having had the disease or (more desirably) most people having been vaccinated, either way making the herd immune. If anyone in the Boris team invoked it as a mechanism of salvation they were talking bollocks because we don't have a vaccine, and (the other pathwayy) having everyone catch the virus is not is smart idea (millions would die). Was it my nemesis Patrick Vallance by any chance who mooted it as a mechanism? If so, as I said, he did his research on blood vessels then blagged his way to the top job in a Pharma company (GSK?). He is not trained in epidemiology or viral disease.
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I am not explaining it, because I don't know what you are asking.
Herd immunity is caused either by most people having had the disease or (more desirably) most people having been vaccinated, either way making the herd immune. If anyone in the Boris team invoked it as a mechanism of salvation they were talking bollocks because we don't have a vaccine, and (the other pathwayy) having everyone catch the virus is not is smart idea (millions would die). Was it my nemesis Patrick Vallance by any chance who mooted it as a mechanism? If so, as I said, he did his research on blood vessels then blagged his way to the top job in a Pharma company (GSK?). He is not trained in epidemiology or viral disease.
Yes, it was Vallance, who is an expert at the heart of government, advising them on the science who, as you seem to be indicating, is highly controversial (which might lead us to question what he's doing there). Beyond the WHO who have been advocating stringent physical distancing/isolation measures and "test, test, test", I've been most persuaded by the regular interventions by Anthony Costello (who also used to work at WHO) and, although I've only just come across it, this article seems as persuasive as I've come across, and was written just before Neil Ferguson's pronounced do-nothing/herd-immunity curves prompted the government to swing into action:
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...st-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19
If you work in (or close to) the field, please post any decent analyses.