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Deleted User X18H
Guest
Blimey that is a very forthright and unsubstantiated opinion. Tarnishing every England captain in the last six years or so. What would Tony Adams say? (I think you know the one I refer to)
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How do you feel about England now
- Thread starter littlehampton seagull
- Start date
Blimey that is a very forthright and unsubstantiated opinion. Tarnishing every England captain in the last six years or so. What would Tony Adams say? (I think you know the one I refer to)
The thing is England, like Brighton, have always been 'not that good', not when compared to the very best. Our record under Sven of always qualifying and getting to the quarter finals was an exception (and you can always tell people who know nothing about football because they think he should have done better given the 'brilliant' players he had). The worst period was the 20 years between 1970 and 1990 when, apart from 1986, on the rare other occasions when we did qualify for the finals of a major competition we never made the quarters. (The 1980 and 1988 Euros being particularly bad).
But I'm English so I support the team regardless as I do in any sport. I am always slightly amazed and exasperated that despite all the historical evidence that we're in the second tier at international level there is still this expectation that we should do well, indeed win, tournaments almost out of the blue simply because .... well we're England. Like with the Albion just support the team, take the rough with the smooth, try and enjoy the ride and remember that reaching the quarter finals of any competition IS historically a good result for us. If you disagree then you are doomed to years of disappointment, frustration and making posts on NSC saying that "We're England, we should be doing better than this". Trust me on this.
But I'm English so I support the team regardless as I do in any sport. I am always slightly amazed and exasperated that despite all the historical evidence that we're in the second tier at international level there is still this expectation that we should do well, indeed win, tournaments almost out of the blue simply because .... well we're England. Like with the Albion just support the team, take the rough with the smooth, try and enjoy the ride and remember that reaching the quarter finals of any competition IS historically a good result for us. If you disagree then you are doomed to years of disappointment, frustration and making posts on NSC saying that "We're England, we should be doing better than this". Trust me on this.
It's hardly unsubstantiated it is.
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
Indifferent.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,131
I agree with every word here. Although I think that much of the frustration felt towards the England team is to do with the ridiculous amount of money that they get paid. They are surely paid (because of the Premier League) disproportionately to their ability and success.
The other frustration is that i think we do under achieve for our resources and even our players. We have truely wasted some incredible talent in this country over the years by not playing them in their best position or hardly playing them at all.
I am talking about Gerrard he who on his day through the middle of the park can win games and competitions on his own (I give you Istambul 2005, FA cup 2006 West Ham
?). I am talking about the ridiculous amount of games that Glenn Hoddle played whilst being one of the best midfielders in Europe.
I am talking about Macmanaman who we couldn't find a place for while he was scoring winners and man of the matches in European cup finals.
I am sure with a little though we could dig out some more wasted talent.
So although you are right and we have always been mediocre I personally don't think that should have been the case if historically the FA had done their jobs properly and currently the Premier League were not over paying our players and holding back the development of our youngsters by flooding our top league with foreigners.
The Germans chose a model years that would bring glory back to their national team, They have set up their league in order to promote the national game and to produce some high quality players in order for the national team to survive. That seems to be working quite well for them.
We chose to set up our league to make money for it's self and **** everybody else. This seems to be working quite well too.
TheJasperCo
Well-known member
I'm not sure really if the team has the passion any more. Something's deeply flawed in the way football is run in England, and I think that shows in the quality of the teams we're fielding. I'd like to think I'm not just a fair-weather fan, but sometimes it's hard to get excited when so many of our matches end up disappointing. When I was younger I used to almost prefer watching England play rather than listening to the Albion on the radio; now it's very much the other way round.
It's a top down approach which aids club football as well. Germany are slowly and silently becoming a power in Euro club football as well now.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,131
Do you happen to know any good resources which discuss what they have done? I am interested in the set up and know a little but would like more detail.
This.
When you have club teams being singled out for going back to square one and attempting to play football 100 years plus after the game was invented you know something is wrong.
Raphael Honigstein | The Guardian is a very good authority on all aspects of German football. I'll try and find some stuff later for you. It's not really rocket science though, more a collective will of all parties to pull in the same direction combined with resource and a culture. This latter point is very important in my opinion. I have seen a number of lower league games over the years and in most cases both teams are still trying to play football. The most noticeable case was a few years back when I saw a second tier end of season relegation battle and both teams calmly set about playing football. It was not the desperate battle of strength and muscle we see in our leagues. Why do teams below the say top 20-30 in the UK abandon playing football? And what hope is there for any youth team players at these clubs to get better as footballers? And lets face it there are a lot of English players in these youth teams who are basically now consigned to not learning any more football. I'd better do some work now but I'll try and dig some stuff out for you later.
This is a good place to start
German soccer*reinvented itself by investing in youth development - Raphael Honigstein - SI.com
Cheeky Monkey
Well-known member
- Jul 17, 2003
- 23,054
I've always been indifferent to the England national team.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 17,131
ta, I will give it a good read when i get back from 5 a side.
Agreed. And I've only just started to realise this in the last few years. The worst thing about England internationals is it brings out so many morons who have no clue about the game and spout utter nonsense. NSC is bad enough when the Albion loss a couple of games, and that comes from people who actually support their local team and go to games, with England it's a million times worse. It winds me up having to listen to idiots at work etc going on and on about what's wrong with England when they 'support' Man Utd and have never been to a game in their lives. They shouldn't be allowed an opinion.
One thing I don't really understand though, is all this "the players don't care, they don't try" stuff. I'm pretty sure they do care, Rooney's got a St George's cross tattooed on his arm, for a start. And they do look genuinely upset when they get beaten. I don't think it's a case of not caring, it's a case of not being quite good enough. And the other thing is that international football in general is far superior to how it used to be, teams like Montenegro are good sides now, their players play in the top leagues in Europe and they are always going to be tough, especially at home. Didn't Spain draw with Finland the other day? There are no easy games. Except San Marino.
But still the main problem with England is that the country is still stuck in the 1970's with the football setup. English players are not good enough technically and not comfortable enough on the ball. And until we change our way of doing things from the bottom up and our obsession with competitive football from a very young age, we are never going to improve. It's still the same, coaches putting the big lads in so they can win the league in the under 15's, sticking the big black guy up front because he's big and black, not playing the little intelligent kid because he's not big enough etc. I read yesterday that there are 3 English teams in the under 19 Champions League semi finals: Arsenal, Chelsea and Aston Villa. How many of those players will end up as real Champions League winners? Very few, probably none. The whole setup is wrong. The Spanish and South Americans don't give a shit about under 19's football, all they care about is nurturing and creating talent ready for the first team, they don't care about saying "our under 12's have just won the junior Champions League", it means nothing. We wonder why we can't produce 'footballing' defenders, like Spain do. Yet we stick the big man at the back from when he is 8, teach him to head it and clear it and make him play on full size pitches in 11-a-side games. How many touches of the ball is he going to get a game? And he spends his whole career like that. Yet in Spain, Portugal, South America etc, by the time that lad has made it to to the fringes of the first team he will have played everywhere. At the back, on the wing, in the centre of midfield, up front, full back, everywhere. He wasn't pigeon holed into a fixed position until he was 19, so he's totally comfortable on the ball and has a far greater understanding of the game than any English centre back who's spent his entire football career stood in the same place heading and kicking away anything that comes near him.
Until the football powers-that-be in this country wake up and realise we are light years behind the rest of the big nations in our whole setup, we are never going to win an international tournament. And it's going to take decades to sort out.
I'm loving the 1/4 finals optimism, what is that actually based on?
We're now scrape through qualifying and are a last 16 knock out team.
The chickens are coming home to roost.
We over pay mediocre (on the world stage) talent while grooming the rest of the worlds talent.
Planet football is getting ever smaller and we are on the outside looking in.
We're now scrape through qualifying and are a last 16 knock out team.
The chickens are coming home to roost.
We over pay mediocre (on the world stage) talent while grooming the rest of the worlds talent.
Planet football is getting ever smaller and we are on the outside looking in.
Hillian1
( . ) ( . )
Up to the World Cup in South Africa I was always behind the national team even though I was growing more disillusioned, and then Wayne Rooney had his little hissy fit about "your own fans booing" changed everything.
His attitude towards "His fans" who had probably spent huge percentages of their annual income in flying to, staying in and travelling round South Africa to watch "Him" and his team fail miserably to preform to a level expected of Championship/League 1 players frankly summed up everything that is wrong with professional football and the attitude of the elite players towards the fans who, although not directly in the case of the National team, pay their huge salaries.
His attitude towards "His fans" who had probably spent huge percentages of their annual income in flying to, staying in and travelling round South Africa to watch "Him" and his team fail miserably to preform to a level expected of Championship/League 1 players frankly summed up everything that is wrong with professional football and the attitude of the elite players towards the fans who, although not directly in the case of the National team, pay their huge salaries.
MattBackHome
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 11,731
This. File me somewhere in the "Couldn't give a flying Holloway" pile.
Seems about the right time to bring out this article again. It's 3 years old now but sums up what is wrong with English football perfectly:
Monday Spotlight: The most famous English coach you’ve never heard of From The Northern Echo)
We are so, so lucky to have Gus Poyet at our club. And anyone who thinks otherwise is exactly the kind of person that is holding back English football.
Monday Spotlight: The most famous English coach you’ve never heard of From The Northern Echo)
We are so, so lucky to have Gus Poyet at our club. And anyone who thinks otherwise is exactly the kind of person that is holding back English football.
I can see where you're coming from but given the number of withdrawals from squads and the frequency and age which players now retire from international football I do not believe a international cap is viewed the same way it once was. Once it was the ultimate accolade, now it is an inconvenience to many.