Happy now, Sven bashers?

[Sid James]

So maybe take a look at Johnson for Crouch in Holland?

If that team could get a few games together I think things would improve.

Johnson would appear to be the one most likely to offer something like Owen's movement AND goal threat. I do like Crouch but he doesn't stretch teams enough for Rooney.

In McClaren's defence I'm sure Johnson would have featured in these two games.

EDIT. WTF is Max Clifford doing talking about whether David Beckham would have made a difference yesterday

 

[Tooting Gull]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

Which is a fair enough observation but not even close to the original post that you made.
We had a situation at the end of last season where an English club got to the Champioins League final and represented their country by fielding not one English player in their starting 11. And then people are surprised we lose 2-0 away to Croatia?

The FA and clubs need to address this asap. Yes it's all very lovely, cosmopolitan and multi-cultral in the Premier league but it's utterly to the detriment of the national side.

Edit - I realise that in all reality the FA and clubs can't sort it out immediately without breaching European law BTW but a long term solution to the development of native players and coaches is a must.

I agree that is a real problem. It seems to be the price of having one of the so-called best (and certainly best-paid) leagues. You get the brilliant talent coming in, but partially to the detriment of the local youngsters.

However, there is one other aspect for which the players, and the culture of our footballers, is solely guilty.

Even if France gets bombarded with African players, French players are prepared to broaden their horizons by going to top clubs at other countries. ours are not, the numbers doing that are tiny, and even if they did some of the in-built prejudices from managers like McClaren would mean that if they were playing for eg Paris St Germain, they would be taken less seriously.

We have players at Premiership and Championship level that would walk into teams on the continent, but they choose not to. So you have to take their whining about lack of opportunity with a pinch of salt.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glad we've got an ENGLISHMAN in charge then?

I agree that is a real problem. It seems to be the price of having one of the so-called best (and certainly best-paid) leagues. You get the brilliant talent coming in, but partially to the detriment of the local youngsters.

However, there is one other aspect for which the players, and the culture of our footballers, is solely guilty.

Even if France gets bombarded with African players, French players are prepared to broaden their horizons by going to top clubs at other countries. ours are not, the numbers doing that are tiny, and even if they did some of the in-built prejudices from managers like McClaren would mean that if they were playing for eg Paris St Germain, they would be taken less seriously.

We have players at Premiership and Championship level that would walk into teams on the continent, but they choose not to. So you have to take their whining about lack of opportunity with a pinch of salt.

Fair point, well made.

You could add that the few that do go abroad either disgrace themselves (Gascoigne), get ignored by actual xenaphobes (Owen being kept out of the Real side by Raul who'se arse he was kicking in their private goal scoring charts), or just have really bad luck (Woodgate).

 

[Uncle Buck]

Johnson would appear to be the one most likely to offer something like Owen's movement AND goal threat. I do like Crouch but he doesn't stretch teams enough for Rooney.

In McClaren's defence I'm sure Johnson would have featured in these two games.

EDIT. WTF is Max Clifford doing talking about whether David Beckham would have made a difference yesterday

This why there is a suspicion that the Beckham dropping was orginally part of Clifford's regime to distance McLaren from Sven. Fair enough not starting him after the Greece result, but he should have been in the squad.

It was obvious that Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard could not all operate in a midfield together and one had to go, especially as Hargreaves came out of the World Cup with credit, it is just that the wrong one was dropped, Lampard should have lost his starting place.

 

[Sid James]

This why there is a suspicion that the Beckham dropping was orginally part of Clifford's regime to distance McLaren from Sven. Fair enough not starting him after the Greece result, but he should have been in the squad.

It was obvious that Beckham, Gerrard and Lampard could not all operate in a midfield together and one had to go, especially as Hargreaves came out of the World Cup with credit, it is just that the wrong one was dropped, Lampard should have lost his starting place.

Whatever one's view on the relative merits of each player this charade has made McClaren's regime ( already ) look vacuous and far more concerned with spin than substance. I really cannot see how anyone can argue that Beckham is not worthy of a squad place. The starting 11 is a different argument but a squad place, jeez. Especially when we waste a space every time with Jenas.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Whatever one's view on the relative merits of each player this charade has made McClaren's regime ( already ) look vacuous and far more concerned with spin than substance. I really cannot see how anyone can argue that Beckham is not worthy of a squad place. The starting 11 is a different argument but a squad place, jeez. Especially when we waste a space every time with Jenas.

It is worrying that Clifford is making statements on whether Beckham would have made a difference etc.

It is also a worry that Beckham cannot get in the squad, yet Wright-Phillips can, a player that cannot hold a place down at Chelsea, I know Beckham has been on the bench for Madrid, but in the past he has been a starter and SWP has in my opinion poor delivery when it comes to crossing.

 

[Sid James]

It is worrying that Clifford is making statements on whether Beckham would have made a difference etc.

It is also a worry that Beckham cannot get in the squad, yet Wright-Phillips can, a player that cannot hold a place down at Chelsea, I know Beckham has been on the bench for Madrid, but in the past he has been a starter and SWP has in my opinion poor delivery when it comes to crossing.

You're worried.

And so am I.

 

[Uncle Buck]

You're worried.

And so am I.

McLaren is not helped that he was very publicly the FA's second choice.

All this could have been avoided by actually interviewing Hiddink.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Who exactly has employed Max Clifford? Oh dear, that's bad.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Who exactly has employed Max Clifford? Oh dear, that's bad.

From the Beeb article today;

Clifford - who is an adviser to McClaren's representatives Key Sports - says not selecting Beckham initially was a wise decision by the new England manager.

 

[Sid James]

McLaren is not helped that he was very publicly the FA's second choice.

All this could have been avoided by actually interviewing Hiddink.

Apparently not, he's a foreigner.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Apparently not, he's a foreigner.

Well we are still paying the other one....

 

[Gritt23]

Fair enough. Can I just check something (and I realise this is hypothetical - sadly, the choice isn't this straight forward): you'd be satisfied with England being mediocre but having nothing but pure Englishmen people involved and would prefer that to England winning the World Cup in South Africa or elsewhere - but with a foreign manager in charge? Again, both are valid points of view (I think...).

Life isn't as black and white as that. The definition of "pure Englishmen" is a tricky definition for a start. There are plenty of grey areas, whereas I'm happy with Pietersen for England (he has an English mother) I wouldn't have been comfortable with the now "qualified" Cudicini in goal.

You can only take each situation on it's merits, and for me I'm happier with McLaren in charge than someone who has only even visited this country because they think there's some cash in it for them.

That's just not what International competition should be about as far as I can see.

 

[Sid James]

Well we are still paying the other one....

I think he is quite happy with the current arrangement.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I think he is quite happy with the current arrangement.

That is true.

Last night had that feeling of Taylor's reign, making system changes for an important qualifier (Norway away in 1993) and players not really having a clue.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Life isn't as black and white as that.

I know. I said that

You can only take each situation on it's merits, and for me I'm happier with McLaren in charge than someone who has only even visited this country because they think there's some cash in it for them.[/B]

OK, so if England keep underperforming and don't qualify for 2008 and, say, Phil Scolari starts showing interest again? You'd prefer to watch it on telly without England involved but at least that's what you think international competition is all about?

Fair enough and don't mean to pick but I just don't get the logic of this wanting your team to underperform because of some flexible concept of nationality. Ah well.

 

[Sid James]

That is true.

Last night had that feeling of Taylor's reign, making system changes for an important qualifier (Norway away in 1993) and players not really having a clue.

At least Taylor built up to that wonderful moment. Nigel Clough wasn't it.

The shame is that the system could work, just not with those players and certainly not first time up in ( probably ) our most difficult away game. It smacked of him chasing Saturday's dropped points.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I'm not sure Max Clifford is helping McClaren at all. I'm absolutely sure he had some hand in dropping Beckham, to make some kind of a statement.

Today, he was all but undermining his own client by opening the door to a Beckham return, and saying he was sure McClaren wasn't too big to reverse his decision.

McClaren can't win. Even if he tells Clifford to f*** off, the PR genius will splash his affairs all over the front pages

Now that's real power...

 

[Sid James]

Today, he was all but undermining his own client by opening the door to a Beckham return, and saying he was sure McClaren wasn't too big to reverse his decision.

McClaren can't win. Even if he tells Clifford to f*** off, the PR genius will splash his affairs all over the front pages

Now that's real power...

I thought that, he really is most unpleasant. Nothing like knowing people's secrets.

 

[Uncle Buck]

At least Taylor built up to that wonderful moment. Nigel Clough wasn't it.

The shame is that the system could work, just not with those players and certainly not first time up in ( probably ) our most difficult away game. It smacked of him chasing Saturday's dropped points.

That night in Norway had the joys of Gary Pallister at full back, I think.

It did smack of making up for Saturday's poor result, but it looked a poor decision early into the game.