Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[Hampster Gull]

William Hill, the UK bookmaker, has refused to accept any more bets on Greece leaving the eurozone, after a flood of wagers on an early Grexit.

Might put a bit on them staying in

 

[TomandJerry]

However, Schelling also flagged up what a confusing area we’re entering -- he reckons that Greece would have to ask to leave, and get the permission of the rest of Europe:

“Greece would have to file a request to do so. The other EU countries would have to approve the request. Only then could Greece leave the eurozone.”

Just incredible

 

[cunning fergus]

Can I arrange this when the UK votes to remain in the EU?

Sure, I will get myself an orange boiler suit to make it authentic for you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sure, I will get myself an orange boiler suit to make it authentic for you.

See, in amongst all our respective bluster we can find some agreement and common ground.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

However, Schelling also flagged up what a confusing area we’re entering -- he reckons that Greece would have to ask to leave, and get the permission of the rest of Europe:

“Greece would have to file a request to do so. The other EU countries would have to approve the request. Only then could Greece leave the eurozone.”

Just incredible

They have to ASK to leave a club ? Really ?? I really hope the Greeks stick two fingers up to the EU next weekend. In the corruption and arrogance stakes they're up there with FIFA. It was very telling the anti-EU feeling on the Question Time panel this week ( even excluding Suzanne Evans ). Maybe the referendum will go the way I hope after all.

 

[cunning fergus]

If Greece defaults and leaves the Eurozone, people will die? That would make for the most convincing argument I've heard for staying in, if it's true. I look forward to hearing that argument being made in the coming days.

Of course it won't be, because it has no basis, it's a childish argument that only someone on an internet forum would make.



"The government did guarantee that Icelanders would not lose the money in their savings accounts, but other financial assets — including the many investment funds that the banks offered — plummeted in value, and many ordinary Icelanders lost large sums that they believed were safely invested."

Research before you comment. Savings were protected. Banks investment funds did suffer, and ordinary people who made those investments suffered as a result. But an investment is a risk, anyone who invests should know that, if they don't know that they should not be investing. If there are going to invest, knowing it is a risk, they should weigh that risk, they should look carefully at what they have invested in.

"The success of the nation’s banks, however, was deceptive to say the least. The assets of Icelandic banks were equal to 174 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product in 2003, and rose to 744 percent in 2007, while the G.D.P. itself rose by an average of 5.5 percent per year."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/15/magazine/icelands-big-economic-thaw.html?_r=0

Trying to make out that I don't care about people dying or losing their retirement savings is pretty low, don't you think?

I have not done research, however the savings were not protected if they were in Icelandic Kronur, because as a consequence of the crisis it fell against sharply against all global currencies. Accordingly, the cost of imports increased to Iceland which in turn increased the cost of living which would erode those savings..........I think it fell 2/3rds in value against the euro, so it was not insignificant.

Similarly the stock market dropped by 80% so not great for pension funds and other investments.

As I said before, the savers are the unsung heroes (and victims) of these economic crisis, generally speaking they didn't recklessly borrow more money than they could afford, but they will lose their money because of what the EU did criminally in Cyprus or devaluation like in Iceland.

 

[cunning fergus]

See, in amongst all our respective bluster we can find some agreement and common ground.

Absolutely it's not as if we don't know where we are both coming from, your candour on this issues is always refreshing.

When my lifeless head is on the stake outside the HoP could you nail a sign to my skull........something like:

"He wanted farm produce to be sold in pounds and ounces"

Something criminally offensive like that?

Danke.

 

[dingodan]

Of course not. It doesn't matter who gets in as he/she will be doing the bidding for the elite until the banking system is broken up and the power is destroyed. I only thumbed down because you ignored the human rights and social policies he has achieved and supported - issues he can influence in the current environment.

JFK tried to strip some of the power away from the Federal Reserve Bank and look what happened to him! The elite are ruthless in the way they protect their interests.

The current Greek government are acting as how a socialist administration would be expected to react against the capitalist monetary institutions. It might not get them anywhere but if the deal failing precipitates financial uncertainty and even chaos within the Eurozone and beyond the elite bankers surely wont want that risk. With that sort of scenario the financiers may sufficiently compromise. Or perhaps it might set out to destroy this troublesome government in some other way.....

The trouble is social issues like Gay Marriage win people over, it's a populist position. It's a sly way of winning people over, without changing anything that actually needs changing. Should Marriage equality exist? Sure. Does it trump issues like Foriegn or Economic Policy? Hell no. The idea that he's a good President because he pushed for Gay Marriage I just cannot understand. If anything I find it cynical and insulting, he has basically used the Gay community and peoples emotive feelings on this issue to try to contrast himself with Conservatives and make himself popular. & sadly he has largely succeeded. Pure politics, nothing else.

 

[dingodan]

Poverty kills. The country wont be able to afford the levels of healthcare we get here - hospitals, medicine and doctors and nurses all need paying for, and with the crisis they're in savings will have to be made and corners will be cut.

Yes it does. So will the people of Greece become poorer if they abide by the conditionalities of the Eurozone, or if they leave?

I know what EU leaders would say, and I guess you agree. But I believe the opposite.

We essentially agree in that we want the Greek people not to suffer, we differ in that you believe they will suffer more for leaving, I believe they will suffer more for staying.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yes it does. So will the people of Greece become poorer if they abide by the conditionalities of the Eurozone, or if they leave?

I know what EU leaders would say, and I guess you agree.

Not really, I don't know what will happen. I'm just saying that it is serious, and I imagine people will suffer either way. This is what happens when the majority of a country treat the economy like a joke.

 

[glasfryn]

They have to ASK to leave a club ? Really ?? I really hope the Greeks stick two fingers up to the EU next weekend. In the corruption and arrogance stakes they're up there with FIFA. It was very telling the anti-EU feeling on the Question Time panel this week ( even excluding Suzanne Evans ). Maybe the referendum will go the way I hope after all.

its heading for a NO thanks from me too
and I have been a committed European since it started

 

[Triggaaar]

its heading for a NO thanks from me too
and I have been a committed European since it started

Could you explain why the big change in your view? Is it just because of the way they're handling Greece?

 

[TomandJerry]

It’s official, the European Central Bank has decided to maintain the emergency liquidity support on offer to Greece, but it has also not provided any extra help.

In a statement, the ECB says that it has decided to maintain the ELA ceiling at Friday’s limit (that’s €89bn).

So it hasn’t pulled the plug, but it also hasn’t provided extra funding to cover the funds that have flowed out of Greek banks this weekend.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Absolutely it's not as if we don't know where we are both coming from, your candour on this issues is always refreshing.

When my lifeless head is on the stake outside the HoP could you nail a sign to my skull........something like:

"He wanted farm produce to be sold in pounds and ounces"

Something criminally offensive like that?

Danke.

You're a decent fella so I will take your head on a tour of the continent, so everyone has the opportunity to pay their rightful respect to you. That's if I can be arsed with the numerous visa applications, red tape and passport nonsense for a few simple day trips to mainland Europe.

 

[cunning fergus]

You're a decent fella so I will take your head on a tour of the continent, so everyone has the opportunity to pay their rightful respect to you. That's if I can be arsed with the numerous visa applications, red tape and passport nonsense for a few simple day trips to mainland Europe.

That's very kind of you.

I know what you mean, however I think you need to learn from the conduct of the hundreds of thousands of new Europeans arriving on the continent these days. They manage to get to Europe from the for corners of the globe, the final leg of which is often a free water taxi service courtesy of the old European taxpayers, after they land they are allowed to freely drift about the continent at will.

No visa applications, red tape or passport for them..........you need to get with their programme.

 

[glasfryn]

Could you explain why the big change in your view? Is it just because of the way they're handling Greece?

one reason but not the only one, the porus borders is another, I just feel the original idea has gone and the more affluent states have taken over and the original idea of having no borders really is not going to work, and thank god we did not go into the EURO.

and maybe as I have got older a little of the little Englander has risen to the top

 

[Buzzer]

You're a decent fella so I will take your head on a tour of the continent, so everyone has the opportunity to pay their rightful respect to you. That's if I can be arsed with the numerous visa applications, red tape and passport nonsense for a few simple day trips to mainland Europe.

You'll be keeping your UK passport then? Probably wise, unlike your adopted country's citizens we're still welcome as friends across the continent. A word of warning though - best not to pull your hilarious "wouldn't happen in Germany" gag in Southern Europe, I'm not sure they find it very funny at the moment. Maybe tell them you're a pan-European socialist with a deep love of all things German. They'll piss themselves laughing at that oxymoron.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You'll be keeping your UK passport then? Probably wise, unlike your adopted country's citizens we're still welcome as friends across the continent. A word of warning though - best not to pull your hilarious "wouldn't happen in Germany" gag in Southern Europe, I'm not sure they find it very funny at the moment. Maybe tell them you're a pan-European socialist with a deep love of all things German. They'll piss themselves laughing at that oxymoron.

At times you really do come across as uptight and humourless.

 

[Buzzer]

Whereas I think you see yourself as some sort of legend on here and you're incredibly pleased with yourself at all times.

Given a choice I'll go with uptight over that any day of the week.

 

[TomandJerry]

Greek banks will not open until July 7 in an attempt to avoid financial panic, after ECB capped the emergency funds keeping them running