Good Beer Guide 2014

[Trufflehound]

pasteurised beer ("craft beer" if you want to use that term) as it's easier and cheaper to keep and has a longer shelf life.

Why would anyone want to use 'craft' as a term to describe pasteurised beer? They are two totally different things. I prefer the term 'industrial' for mass-produced pasteurised products.

All the craft beers I know are unpasteursied, and mostly unfilered or only lightly filtered, all to keep the flavour in. And they're certainly not cheaper or easier to make.

My big beef with CAMRA is that too many members seem unable to realise this distinction between craft and industrial, simply because they are both sometimes served in kegs.

And they won't admit the reality - that cask real ale is craft beer too.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why would anyone want to use 'craft' as a term to describe pasteurised beer? They are two totally different things. I prefer the term 'industrial' for mass-produced pasteurised products.

All the craft beers I know are unpasteursied, and mostly unfilered or only lightly filtered, all to keep the flavour in. And they're certainly not cheaper or easier to make.

My big beef with CAMRA is that too many members seem unable to realise this distinction between craft and industrial, simply because they are both sometimes served in kegs.

And they won't admit the reality - that cask real ale is craft beer too.

Pretty much this.

Magnus' post is a perfect example of everything which is wrong with CAMRA i.e. stuck in the past with ill-formed and biased we-know-best views.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

And they won't admit the reality - that cask real ale is craft beer too.

And what about brewers who use cask and keg? Are Dark Star now invalidated as a real ale brewer for using kegs?

 

[CheeseRolls]

Why would anyone want to use 'craft' as a term to describe pasteurised beer? They are two totally different things. I prefer the term 'industrial' for mass-produced pasteurised products.

All the craft beers I know are unpasteursied, and mostly unfilered or only lightly filtered, all to keep the flavour in. And they're certainly not cheaper or easier to make.

My big beef with CAMRA is that too many members seem unable to realise this distinction between craft and industrial, simply because they are both sometimes served in kegs.

And they won't admit the reality - that cask real ale is craft beer too.

Pretty much this.

Magnus' post is a perfect example of everything which is wrong with CAMRA i.e. stuck in the past with ill-formed and biased we-know-best views.

Frankly I think the pair of you are talking bollocks. There are plenty of CAMRA types on this thread, not one of whom has attempted to deny that cask real ale can be craft beer too. It is almost as if you are having an argument with an imaginary friend. CAMRA focuses on the cask, because it is desperate to preserve the fantastic institution that is the British pub, in all its various guises. Yes this includes the trendy Canine's Testicles in Leeds, aimed at the sneering urbane sophisticates, right through to the stuck in a time warp Mitre Taverns of this world.

Here's where I stand :-

Positives

Challenges the status quo not just for real ale drinkers, but for all beer, wine and cider drinkers.
Many brilliant and inspiring new beer styles emerging.
Greater choice and availability.
Even some of the mega brewers, want to get involved in producing small run specialist beers, rather than just bland mass produced offerings.

Negatives

Anything can be labelled as a craft beer, regardless of provenance or quality.
Like the argument between New World and Old World wine, it challenges lazy and bad practices, but ignores the good points about the traditional links between beer styles and location.
I can't get my head around the concept of quality beer in a can - maybe I am just behind the times on this one and need to experiment more.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Frankly I think the pair of you are talking bollocks. There are plenty of CAMRA types on this thread, not one of whom has attempted to deny that cask real ale can be craft beer too. It is almost as if you are having an argument with an imaginary friend. CAMRA focuses on the cask, because it is desperate to preserve the fantastic institution that is the British pub, in all its various guises. Yes this includes the trendy Canine's Testicles in Leeds, aimed at the sneering urbane sophisticates, right through to the stuck in a time warp Mitre Taverns of this world.

Here's where I stand :-

Positives

Challenges the status quo not just for real ale drinkers, but for all beer, wine and cider drinkers.
Many brilliant and inspiring new beer styles emerging.
Greater choice and availability.
Even some of the mega brewers, want to get involved in producing small run specialist beers, rather than just bland mass produced offerings.

Negatives

Anything can be labelled as a craft beer, regardless of provenance or quality.
Like the argument between New World and Old World wine, it challenges lazy and bad practices, but ignores the good points about the traditional links between beer styles and location.
I can't get my head around the concept of quality beer in a can - maybe I am just behind the times on this one and need to experiment more.

Fine. But you are missing my point. CAMRA does some good, but it also has some negatives. And Magnus, for me, pretty much encapsulated all of these in his post.

 

[spring hall convert]

On reflection i think camra's problem is they're still fighting a war that was won a fair time ago.

Absolutely agreed.

 

[Trufflehound]

Frankly I think the pair of you are talking bollocks. There are plenty of CAMRA types on this thread, not one of whom has attempted to deny that cask real ale can be craft beer too. It is almost as if you are having an argument with an imaginary friend. CAMRA focuses on the cask, because it is desperate to preserve the fantastic institution that is the British pub, in all its various guises.

I'm not talking bollocks. I'm a CAMRA member too, and I love real ale.

Like I said in my previous post, my issue is with a small blinkered section of CAMRA (they are not imaginary friends - if you read the What's Brewing letter page then you'll know they are there in numbers, and I've met dozens in the flesh in pubs). They equate craft with pasteurised with 'dead beer' and dismiss it out of hand.

Nothing wrong with championing real ale and good pubs. But there is with dismissing something out of hand through ignorance. Other craft beers aren't a threat to real ale, they're a supplement to it and should be embraced. Most people on this thread (and in the real world) get that, a few don't.

 

[Trufflehound]

Anything can be labelled as a craft beer, regardless of provenance or quality.

That is true, but any unscrupulous producer of any product, beer or otherwise, and including real ale, can dress something up to make out it's quality when it clearly isn't. Why single out craft beer?

Any consumer worth their salt will see through the window dressing in no time.

I can't get my head around the concept of quality beer in a can - maybe I am just behind the times on this one and need to experiment more.

Personally I agree on this, as canned beer for me conjures up images of winos on park benches or teenages supping super-strength lagers. The argument for it is that light is the biggest enemy of any beer, so sealing it in a tin rather than a semi-opaque bottle preserves the quality better.

But on those psychological grounds, I'm out.

 

[Magnus]

Fine. But you are missing my point. CAMRA does some good, but it also has some negatives. And Magnus, for me, pretty much encapsulated all of these in his post.

Why don't you start a craft beer lobbyist group then?

 

[CheeseRolls]

That is true, but any unscrupulous producer of any product, beer or otherwise, and including real ale, can dress something up to make out it's quality when it clearly isn't. Why single out craft beer?

Any consumer worth their salt will see through the window dressing in no time.



Personally I agree on this, as canned beer for me conjures up images of winos on park benches or teenages supping super-strength lagers. The argument for it is that light is the biggest enemy of any beer, so sealing it in a tin rather than a semi-opaque bottle preserves the quality better.

But on those psychological grounds, I'm out.

I guess we are just splitting hairs now. If discerning consumers can tell the difference why is there the need to label any beer as craft ?

http://thisisbravetalk.com/2013/03/21/the-craft-is-in-the-can/

" Cans used to poison your drink with a metallic taste but now, due to a water-based polymer lining, the liquid inside doesn’t even touch the metal outer. We should also add that cans won’t let light or oxygen in like glass to damage the liquid, they won’t smash when dropped, can be stacked for storage or chilling, take up less space and are more recyclable than bottles."


This challenges my major pre-conception about beer from a can anyway.

 

[Trufflehound]

If discerning consumers can tell the difference why is there the need to label any beer as craft ?

There isn't. And I haven't really noticed many serious brewers doing it. It's simply a convenient media term that distinguishes any beer made with skill and affection from something made in a factory at the push of a button. As such, there's nothing to stop someone making the latter kind from slapping the words 'authentic craft beer' on their tin. But any good beer lover will notice.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why don't you start a craft beer lobbyist group then?

Craft Beer seems to be flourishing quite well; I do not feel any need to campaign for it thank you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If discerning consumers can tell the difference why is there the need to label any beer as craft ?

Why label anything then? It's just a handy term/phrase to use in certain circumstances which distinguishes it from others.

 

[Magnus]

Pretty much this.

Magnus' post is a perfect example of everything which is wrong with CAMRA i.e. stuck in the past with ill-formed and biased we-know-best views.

If you want to call me a pcunt mate just come out and say it. For the most part I've found the posters here on NSC a good bunch but I've had just about enough of these thinly veiled, ill conceited attacks from you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you want to call me a pcunt mate just come out and say it. For the most part I've found the posters here on NSC a good bunch but I've had just about enough of these thinly veiled, ill conceited attacks from you.

Attacks on you? I do believe this is the first time I have ever responded to you. So attacks (plural) is wide of the mark. Second, the quote of yours I use is targeted at CAMRA..not you. I guess it does imply you though but it is not aimed at you. If I have upset you then I apologise as this was not my intention.