Good Beer Guide 2014

[Smith DID score]

The GBG is about the beer, the quality, the way it is stored and dispensed is critical, if you use CO2 blankets, you won't get in, if you sell only bright beer you won't get in, however, if you serve real ale, properly (in their opinion) then you can be nominated, if your beer is deemed good enough, you'll get in. It makes no odds if the pub is a shithouse, or if it's a Constitutional Club, or in a rough part of town, it is only about the beer.

Totally agree with you its about the beer, BUT personally I think it should still only list places that anyone can walk in and buy said beer without any membership, entrance fee etc.
If its just about the beer then half the cricket clubs in England could be listed and maybe half the constitutional clubs too or even the bar in the house of Commons, but as you or I can't just walk in to any of them I don't think they should be in.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

see, even the "purity laws" are snobish too, for example wheatbeers dont count.

I think the current (1993) purity law does allow wheat. Germany is swimming in native wheat beer.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not really, real ale has a definition, it is not ambiguous, it cannot be misinterpreted.

im not disputing, thats rahter where the pretention lies, its too narrow definition. as i understand it the typical bottled ale has had secondary fermentation, which is really what matters, not that theres flocculation left in the bottle.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

There are 4 Harveys pubs in Lewes. The Swan, Rights of Man (?sp), The Dorset and The JHT. Only the JHT is in the Good Beer Guide. I can only presume it's in there as it's the brewery tap.

This goes back to the days when Harvey's did a deal with the former Beard's brewery. Harvey's brewed the beer and Beard's owned the pubs. The agreement covered the whole of Lewes town (but excluded The Swan - which was considered to be in Southover, rather than Lewes). The former Beard's pubs were then sold on to Greene King. The Dorset, the JHT and the Rights of Man (formerly the Rainbow) are recent acquisitions by Harvey's.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Perhaps someone needs to set up the Campaign for well produced beers that are not secondary fermented in the cask.

I'm trying my hardest Phil

 

[Gwylan]

CAMRA's original remit was to promote decent beer and oppose mass produced rubbish. When they started this meant supporting real ale. They based their now archaic definition of "good" around this. But, time has moved on and there are now hundreds of breweries producing fantastic beers which we, and CAMRA, should all champion. But CAMRA still cling to their 70s definition. There are loads of great beers which CAMRA overlook (or look down on) purely because they're stuck with their old idea of what beer is.

You're missing the point about CAMRA: It's not an organisation laying down the law of what real beer is or isn't. It's a member-run organisation that sets the agenda. Believe me, there's plenty of debate within CAMRA as to whether the definition of real beer is too narrow and if there was a desire of members to change it, then it would (all decisions are taken democratically, not handed down from above).

So, the definition of real ale is not "archaic", the definition of real ale is what its members want it to be. If you (and Uncle Buck) want to change that definition, there's nothing stopping you joining CAMRA and putting it forward as a policy (joining the several dozen similar motions).

I've been a member of CAMRA for more than 20 years - I disagree with many of its policies and campaigns - but I fully appreciate that everything the organisation stands for is what its members want. There aren't many public bodies that can truly say that.

 

[CheeseRolls]

You're missing the point about CAMRA: It's not an organisation laying down the law of what real beer is or isn't. It's a member-run organisation that sets the agenda. Believe me, there's plenty of debate within CAMRA as to whether the definition of real beer is too narrow and if there was a desire of members to change it, then it would (all decisions are taken democratically, not handed down from above).

So, the definition of real ale is not "archaic", the definition of real ale is what its members want it to be. If you (and Uncle Buck) want to change that definition, there's nothing stopping you joining CAMRA and putting it forward as a policy (joining the several dozen similar motions).

I've been a member of CAMRA for more than 20 years - I disagree with many of its policies and campaigns - but I fully appreciate that everything the organisation stands for is what its members want. There aren't many public bodies that can truly say that.

I agree with you on this Gwylan. CAMRA is not sniffy about quality beers and ciders at all, it is just that it exists to promote Real Ale it is in the name. A lot of what passes for Craft beer falls under this remit and there is no conflict at all. Foreign beer tours are actively promoted and there are many articles encouraging people to get out there and taste.

The wider issue with craft beer is that generally people understand what it is, but there is no formal definition. This only really matters when the term gets misused (not something I have experienced yet thankfully). Passing my "local" I noticed Greene King are promoting their International beer festival which seems to consist of around half a dozen bottled beers, which at first glace all appear to be brewed under license in the UK. I hope we don't ever see "craft" misused in this context.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Totally with you on this. CAMRA's original remit was to promote decent beer and oppose mass produced rubbish. When they started this meant supporting real ale. They based their now archaic definition of "good" around this. But, time has moved on and there are now hundreds of breweries producing fantastic beers which we, and CAMRA, should all champion. But CAMRA still cling to their 70s definition. There are loads of great beers which CAMRA overlook (or look down on) purely because they're stuck with their old idea of what beer is. Real ale is fine, but to claim you want good beer to prevail and to overlook German beers and craft beers is totally counter productive and small minded.

Maybe a few examples would help me to understand your position here.

 

[CheeseRolls]

This is debatable. Lager is German for storage and whilst the name does relate to the process I think it can be said that "lager" is a class of beers.

Agreed it is debatable. However when someone says they like a German/Czech style of lager, I assume that what they are referring to is Pilsner, rather than Dunkel, Rauchbier, Marzen or any of the other styles of German "lagered" beers that are less well known Internationally.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You're missing the point about CAMRA: It's not an organisation laying down the law of what real beer is or isn't. It's a member-run organisation that sets the agenda. Believe me, there's plenty of debate within CAMRA as to whether the definition of real beer is too narrow and if there was a desire of members to change it, then it would (all decisions are taken democratically, not handed down from above).

So, the definition of real ale is not "archaic", the definition of real ale is what its members want it to be. If you (and Uncle Buck) want to change that definition, there's nothing stopping you joining CAMRA and putting it forward as a policy (joining the several dozen similar motions).

I've been a member of CAMRA for more than 20 years - I disagree with many of its policies and campaigns - but I fully appreciate that everything the organisation stands for is what its members want. There aren't many public bodies that can truly say that.

Fine. I do not think I am missing the point though. CAMRA's original aim was to champion good beer and oppose the growing mass production of beer; I think they are stuck in a rut if this is still their belief. For the record this is just a bug bear and I do not have an axe to grind, they do a lot of good and I broadly support their aims and I use the guide myself

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Maybe a few examples would help me to understand your position here.

A few examples of craft beer?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Maybe a few examples would help me to understand your position here.

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/mikkeller-george-barrel-aged-cognac-edition/190858/

I have this in my fridge for the weekend.

 

[CheeseRolls]

A few examples of craft beer?

As per the Ops post the Craft Beer Co pub is one of the listed pubs under Brighton in The Good Beer Guide.

 

[CheeseRolls]

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/mikkeller-george-barrel-aged-cognac-edition/190858/

I have this in my fridge for the weekend.

I would happily drink that and I can't imagine CAMRA being sniffy about this beer at all. Russian Imperial Stout is a style of beer that originated in London in the 18th Century. I would recommend a bottle of Harveys for comparison. I have one in at the moment marked best before end of 2015. It seems they no longer include the brewing date. I had some millennium stock and opened the last bottle to celebrate the opening of the Amex - happy days.

 

[Trufflehound]

You're missing the point about CAMRA: It's not an organisation laying down the law of what real beer is or isn't. It's a member-run organisation that sets the agenda. Believe me, there's plenty of debate within CAMRA as to whether the definition of real beer is too narrow and if there was a desire of members to change it, then it would (all decisions are taken democratically, not handed down from above).

So, the definition of real ale is not "archaic", the definition of real ale is what its members want it to be. If you (and Uncle Buck) want to change that definition, there's nothing stopping you joining CAMRA and putting it forward as a policy (joining the several dozen similar motions).

I've been a member of CAMRA for more than 20 years - I disagree with many of its policies and campaigns - but I fully appreciate that everything the organisation stands for is what its members want. There aren't many public bodies that can truly say that.

My understanding of the real ale / craft beer debate within CAMRA (my source being the very person who has unsuccessfully proposed a motion that the organisation supports all craft beers at the past two AGMs) is that there is a certain person right at the top who is a staunch "real ale is the only beer" man, and there is no one in the immediate under-ranks with enough power or gumption to stand up and challenge this view publicly (apart from my source, but while he has undoubted influence, he has no power...).

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would happily drink that and I can't imagine CAMRA being sniffy about this beer at all. Russian Imperial Stout is a style of beer that originated in London in the 18th Century. I would recommend a bottle of Harveys for comparison. I have one in at the moment marked best before end of 2015. It seems they no longer include the brewing date. I had some millennium stock and opened the last bottle to celebrate the opening of the Amex - happy days.

Harveys do indeed make some great stouts. There was one which my local off license used to sell which oddly had some random award for best beer with a pizza on the back.

 

[Trufflehound]

Incidentally, those looking for some craft beer recommendations to try could do worse than getting hold of the new Pocket Beer Book, launched just yesterday:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pocket-Beer...d=1378193561&sr=1-1&keywords=pocket+beer+book

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My understanding of the real ale / craft beer debate within CAMRA (my source being the very person who has unsuccessfully proposed a motion that the organisation supports all craft beers at the past two AGMs) is that there is a certain person right at the top who is a staunch "real ale is the only beer" man, and there is no one in the immediate under-ranks with enough power or gumption to stand up and challenge this view publicly (apart from my source, but while he has undoubted influence, he has no power...).

This is interesting to know and kind of backs up my feelings.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/craft-beer-v-real-ale

Please note I do not agree with everything in this article

 

[Uncle Buck]

At the moment my favourites are Augustina Edelstoff and Andechs Spezial. Glorious. Check them out. When you coming to Berlin next?

We are either going to Berlin or Neustadt for the annual planning meeting in November, as it stands.

Will let you know.