Gatherings of more than 6 people to be banned

[GT49er]

This is an absolutely historic suspension of civil liberties, across Europe. For an indefinite period.

You don't think we should be challenging the basis for doing it? You think I am wrong for even questioning it. You want all dissenters arrested.

**** me. We're doomed.

Point of order: 2 or 3 is not 'all of them'. Your reaction is just what I'd expect from someone who feels he shouldn't be inconvenienced if he doesn't like it. You're not doomed - suffering a minor inconvenience is just that and no more! Geez!

 

[Bozza]

How many cases and deaths do Sweden have right now? How functioning is their society compared to others? The majority of their deaths were care home which they admit they had a disaster protecting.

If you want to talk deaths, you can't just ignore what has happened up until now...



...and, yes, Sweden didn't go as hard on restrictions as their neighbours, although Norway, who went hardest, is now more relaxed than Sweden.



And how has it played out for these countries economically thus far you ask? Allow me...

 

[LamieRobertson]

FFS why does everything need to be so polarised!

There's a middle ground somewhere - everyone going back to pre-covid behaviour or locking everyone up in their homes are not the only two options. An alien reading this thread might think they are!

Numbers have gone up but not exponentially, all we need to do is turn the dial from 6 to 5.

Lol...just having read this afternoons posts I couldn’t agree more

Have a gd evening

 

[LamieRobertson]

If you want to talk deaths, you can't just ignore what has happened up until now...

View attachment 128186

...and, yes, Sweden didn't go as hard on restrictions as their neighbours, although Norway, who went hardest, is now more relaxed than Sweden.

View attachment 128184

And how has it played out for these countries economically thus far you ask? Allow me...

View attachment 128185

Partly related the latest figures for UK ..dating back to April

https://twitter.com/anshul__k/status/1304082951395782657?s=21

 

[rippleman]

Infections, infections, infections.

Will nobody consider the deaths? Fallen from over a thousand a day in April to a handful now. Yes, infection rates may be rising but hospital admissions and deaths are, thankfully, negligible compared to where we were a few months ago. Just as the top virus fella predicted on 20 August.

 

[Bozza]

And, for clarity, I'm not saying that the Swedish approach is wrong or right - I think it's far too early to be making any assessments like that.

But I'm a bit fed up of people suggesting, based on evidence to date, that Sweden are best-in-class for their Covid-19 response because by almost every measure I can think of they are nothing of the sort. The same people also seem to suggest that Sweden just breezed through stuff with no social restrictions at all, which is also not the case.

Finally, the very same people will often links to articles and videos stating that they found them "interesting". Maybe they did genuinely find them interesting, but what they really mean is "Hey look - I've found something that aligns with my perspective. Look at it. Please look at it. Go on - look at it!"

They'd make wonderful case studies for those looking to research Confirmation Bias.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But the music and arts industry is on its knees, potentially with its infrastructure damaged beyond repair.

That's a global industry and issue. First Aid Kit are Swedish, they were on 6 Music the other week saying they can't do gigs over there.

Also, great whataboutery

EDIT - sorry, did I say global. There were a few in New Zealand

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12345509

 

[Bozza]

Infections, infections, infections.

Will nobody consider the deaths? Fallen from over a thousand a day in April to a handful now. Yes, infection rates may be rising but hospital admissions and deaths are, thankfully, negligible compared to where we were a few months ago. Just as the top virus fella predicted on 20 August.

A strange thing to say, given this is only about deaths.

Go back to mid-March - maybe take a look at the main NSC thread on this subject - and there was all manner of this being said...

"What's the fuss about - only a few people have it. You've got more chance of <insert something bizarre that will probably never happen to you here > than of catching this Coronavirus thing."

"Only <insert small number here> people out of 66m people have died of this so far of this. You're more likely to die of <insert almost ludicrously comical way of dying here> than of coronavirus>

A few weeks later many hundreds of people were dying every day.

We don't want to go back there, and maybe we wouldn't even if we did nothing at all, but I don't consider the requests made of us to be too cumbersome if the potential upside is a load of people not losing their lives prematurely.

 

[Albion Dan]

If you want to talk deaths, you can't just ignore what has happened up until now...

View attachment 128186

...and, yes, Sweden didn't go as hard on restrictions as their neighbours, although Norway, who went hardest, is now more relaxed than Sweden.

View attachment 128184

And how has it played out for these countries economically thus far you ask? Allow me...

View attachment 128185

For me its not where Sweden where, they admit they made mistakes which mostly cost the deaths of the very elderly in care homes, it's where they are now and there ability to now function much better as a society. Comparing them to their neighbours is pointless because they had extreme lockdowns. If we all locked down every year no one would die of flu. But we dont.

 

[Bozza]

For me its not where Sweden where, they admit they made mistakes which mostly cost the deaths of the very elderly in care homes, it's where they are now and there ability to now function much better as a society. Comparing them to their neighbours is pointless because they had extreme lockdowns. If we all locked down every year no one would die of flu. But we dont.

Got it. I'm with you: Sweden's approach to dealing with Covid-19 has been brilliant*


(* - if you ignore that they lost 10 times as many people as their two nearest geographical and cultural neighbours with the same size population, also ignore that Sweden's current social restrictions are more severe than Norway's and about on a par with Finland's and also ignore Sweden's economy has been the hardest hit of the three)

 

[beorhthelm]

But the music and arts industry is on its knees, potentially with its infrastructure damaged beyond repair.

what infrastructure would that be?

 

[severnside gull]

Social media all over this bit of nonsense and not a mention of Johnson breaking the law and wilfully ripping you international trade agreements.

Which is exactly what he/Cummings intended

 

[Bozza]

Social media all over this bit of nonsense and not a mention of Johnson breaking the law and wilfully ripping you international trade agreements.

Which is exactly what he/Cummings intended

It was the lead story and discussed at length on 5 Live as I was cooking dinner. Not sure they covered anything else.

Appreciate this revelation doesn’t quite fit with what you want to hear.

 

[Swansman]

Got it. I'm with you: Sweden's approach to dealing with Covid-19 has been brilliant*


(* - if you ignore that they lost 10 times as many people as their two nearest geographical and cultural neighbours with the same size population, also ignore that Sweden's current social restrictions are more severe than Norway's and about on a par with Finland's and also ignore Sweden's economy has been the hardest hit of the three)

We also currently have one of the lowest rates of new cases in the world. Lets make another comparison in six months or so and we'll see how the strategy worked out compared to other countries...

 

[severnside gull]

It was the lead story and discussed at length on 5 Live as I was cooking dinner. Not sure they covered anything else.

Appreciate this revelation doesn’t quite fit with what you want to hear.

Not at all.
My point is that it is absent from social media so not what the person in the street is talking about.
That (in my view) is very much as engineered

 

[A1X]

We do NOT need to be as fearful as we SHOULD have been in March.

I don't believe the majority of people are, hence why people are still going to pubs / restaurants / shops. However, people are taking sensible precautions when doing so (wearing masks, sanitising hands, still largely adhering to social distancing etc.). Where the concerns have been raised are around legitimate concerns. For example, people returning to offices. Most modern offices rely on air-con and are sealed environments, meaning if one person gets it it quickly spreads around an entire office. What's the use in putting people at any risk unnecessarily? And even to get there people would need to pack onto trains with no opening windows, which have the same problem.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not at all.
My point is that it is absent from social media so not what the person in the street is talking about.
That (in my view) is very much as engineered

The very reason Cummings has a job at all is due to his brilliance with using data to work out what populist policy looks like and then using data to keep it there.

Although I bet he probably picked up bits and pieces about BoJo from their times at The Spectator.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don't believe the majority of people are, hence why people are still going to pubs / restaurants / shops. However, people are taking sensible precautions when doing so (wearing masks, sanitising hands, still largely adhering to social distancing etc.). Where the concerns have been raised are around legitimate concerns. For example, people returning to offices. Most modern offices rely on air-con and are sealed environments, meaning if one person gets it it quickly spreads around an entire office. What's the use in putting people at any risk unnecessarily? And even to get there people would need to pack onto trains with no opening windows, which have the same problem.

Also, this.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Could you imagine voting for Johnson and his puppet master Cummings to take charge and then, a few months later, moaning about what Johnson and Cummings have done

 

[Weststander]

How many cases and deaths do Sweden have right now? How functioning is their society compared to others? The majority of their deaths were care home which they admit they had a disaster protecting.

New daily cases per million:
Denmark 55
Sweden 23
Finland 11
Norway 10

Deaths per million:
Sweden 571 (very close to the UK and Italy, not quite as bad as Spain .... all lambasted as CV19 disaster zones).
Denmark 108
Finland 61
Norway 49

If Sweden is the poster boy that proves lockdowns are unnecessary, that title comes with the loss of 40,000 lives (pro-rated to our population). Real people, real loved ones. Their lockdown neighbours didn’t suffer that tragedy.

Regarding care homes, that’s the story across Europe, it’s not bad luck or a misjudgement that befell Sweden alone. Half of CV19 deaths in Italy, France and Spain were in care homes.