Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

[Football] Gary Lineker to step back from presenting MOTD



Titanic

Super Moderator
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,432
West Sussex

Gary Lineker is to step back from presenting Match of the Day until an agreement is reached on his social media use - BBC statement.
It follows an impartiality row over comments he made criticising the government's new asylum policy.
In a tweet, the presenter had compared the language used by the government to set out its plan to "that used by Germany in the 30s".
 




Acker79

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 15, 2008
31,921
Brighton
This has nothing to do with what Lineker said unless hes copying her?, if not its a side issue.

Joan Salter was born in Belgium in 1940 and she was forced to leave as a baby, the war was over when she was 5yo..... id guess she has some childhood memory and her story is vitally important and her suffering real, but she wasn't alive or in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was already murdering Jews and using genocidal language against them, the language Comparison that Lineker made even if indirectly, and that account of 1930s Germany and its language, is given in multiple places by many renowned sources for people to make assess that comparison themselves without need for others opinion.

If she said same to Braverman, that is her perogative. 30s Germany was infinitely worse and I genuinely dont believe we are going to engage in genocide, or that fair and compassionate brits, or its government, however truly abysmal would ever endorse anything like that
Its not comparative. Its political posturing.

Not quite sure why you think a Belgian 3 year old is more an authority on 30s Germany than say Robert Paxton?

Or because she is Jewish and survived as a Belgian baby if she says its just the same, and it isnt, then it must be, because she said so.... we can all make our own minds up!
How does it have nothing to do with it?

You're arguing against people claiming what lineker said (language used not dissimiler to 1930s Germany) was accurate by claiming they have no idea what it was like back then.

They are two learned people, one who survived the holocaust and has dedicated her life to educating people about it to the point she was awarded an MBE in recognition of the work she has done over her life, the other raised in Germany with a strong education of the history of displaced people both saying that the language used by the government is similar to that used in 1930s Germany.

Does it prove you wrong or stop you making your own mind up? No. I never claimed it did, I've no idea what your experience/education background is on the issue. But it is evidence to counter your claim that everyone saying what Lineker said was right don't know anything about 1930s Germany. These people very much know what they are talking about. And it is misrepresentative of the people on the other side of the argument to you to claim that they know nothing.


Was he copying her? Possibly, Joan Salter MBE confronting Suella Braverman was a significant news story just last month, maybe he is listening to someone who knows what she's talking about, taking it on board and using it to shape his opinion.
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
This has nothing to do with what Lineker said unless hes copying her?, if not its a side issue.

Joan Salter was born in Belgium in 1940 and she was forced to leave as a baby, the war was over when she was 5yo..... id guess she has some childhood memory and her story is vitally important and her suffering real, but she wasn't alive or in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler was already murdering Jews and using genocidal language against them, the language Comparison that Lineker made even if indirectly, and that account of 1930s Germany and its language, is given in multiple places by many renowned sources for people to make assess that comparison themselves without need for others opinion.

If she said same to Braverman, that is her perogative. 30s Germany was infinitely worse and I genuinely dont believe we are going to engage in genocide, or that fair and compassionate brits, or its government, however truly abysmal would ever endorse anything like that
Its not comparative. Its political posturing.

Not quite sure why you think a Belgian 3 year old is more an authority on 30s Germany than say Robert Paxton?

Or because she is Jewish and survived as a Belgian baby if she says its just the same, and it isnt, then it must be, because she said so.... we can all make our own minds up!
Why do you think her parents got out of Belgium? Were there warning signs such as inflammatory language? Do you think Joan Salter’s parents would explain to her why they fled when they did?
 




peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,755
Why do you think her parents got out of Belgium? Were there warning signs such as inflammatory language? Do you think Joan Salter’s parents would explain to her why they fled when they did?
It's a side issue and nobody can answer than, except them.

The fact is they were in Belgium and took there baby daughter with them.

They weren't in Germany in 30s.

As to @Acker79 are they 2 learned people of 1930s German language? Or potential Belgian victims of Nazism who ran in the 40s, as truly tragic as that is.

If I as a 3yo survived 9/11 does it make me a learned expert on Al Qaeda? So much so that my childhood experiences in NY supercede other scholars writing of its network in Afghanistan, 10 years earlier?

Like I said, her opinion,.is just that, her experiences and lifetime fighting anti semitimism and the dangers of it, are all important. Her outspokeness about hatred is relevant and needed, Is she "more" of an expert by default on 30s Germany than other scholars?

I don't discount her, or her opinion. Id read much about that time, didn't find it comparable to anything said today (and I don't endorse or agree with govt words or policy).

And her experience didn't change the conclusions I had made from other scholars of the rise of fascism before this.
 










bobby baxter

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
719
I don't believe that you are that slow to think that Lineker is referring to a specific quote but if you are, here's some to ponder.

Suella Braverman - "It would “betray” British voters not to tackle the “waves of illegal migrants breaching our border”
Suella Braverman - “There are 100 million people around the world who could qualify for protection under our current laws. Let’s be clear. They are coming here.”
Suella Braverman - “The British people deserve to know which party is serious about stopping the invasion of our southern coast – and which party is not.”

You can also find Boris Johnson blaming immigrants for creating "unmanageable demands on our NHS and our welfare state" and "overstretching our local schools, our housing and public transport, and creates unsustainable pressure to build on precious green spaces", it's constant, deliberate and absolutely reminiscent of 1930s Germany.
Game, set, and match !
 




drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,281
Burgess Hill
Alex Scott? With Lineker focussing on activism/holding the Government to account. Could work, I guess...
That really isn't the issue though. This is about an organisation that supposedly has one set of rules that they want to apply to a sports presenter that used an independent platform with no reference to the BBC to air his concerns but applies them differently to other presenters, seemingly those that lean towards the current government. It also raises questions as to whether the BBC decision was influenced by pressure from tory MPs and/or the tory chairman of the BBC!! At the moment it is about Gary Lineker but it can also be about David Attenborough who seems to have had a controversial episode of his latest documentary relegated to BBC3.
 








Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
35,598
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
The BBC has always had politically appointed figures and ex politicians taking senior jobs. To be fair it wasn't much different under New Labour.
Oh really? Which Tory supporting presenter did Alistair Campbell cancel?
 


clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,634
Oh really? Which Tory supporting presenter did Alistair Campbell cancel?
I seem to recall the Director General was forced to resign....

Quite a telling quote from the NUJ at the time...

Being independent doesn't just mean not having the government telling you what to do. It means you can criticise the government as well. I'm not at all sure the government understands that..

Andrew Gilligan also went, who ended up working for Boris Johnson at City Hall. Gilligan who Cambell describes as "personal friend of Johnson".

I hope that answers your question :)

The Government of the day getting pissed off with the BBC isn't exactly new, neither is them doing so fuelled by perception of political allegiance.
 
Last edited:


jcdenton08

Offended Liver Sausage
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
11,927
They don’t, but they have been warned about inflammatory language several times.
Jo Cox’s sister, Tracy Brabin, warned Johnson, about inflammatory language in 2019.

Pritti Patel warned about calling lawyers activists, and lefty lawyers in 2020

We have had two MPs assassinated in the last 7 years. That’s two too many.
Their language is totally inappropriate and they are incompetent. I don’t know what to tell you. The Tories are shit at the moment and won’t get any better.
 




clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,634
That really isn't the issue though. This is about an organisation that supposedly has one set of rules that they want to apply to a sports presenter that used an independent platform with no reference to the BBC to air his concerns but applies them differently to other presenters, seemingly those that lean towards the current government. It also raises questions as to whether the BBC decision was influenced by pressure from tory MPs and/or the tory chairman of the BBC!! At the moment it is about Gary Lineker but it can also be about David Attenborough who seems to have had a controversial episode of his latest documentary relegated to BBC3.
Technically IPlayer.
 




peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,755
One would think so, but my god, there’s some deeply entrenched folks on this thread who’ll dismiss that. It’s astounding.
Its not entrenched. It bears little to no resemblance to the unspeakable evil and realities of Nazi Germany in the 30's.

I've got a Ukrainain wife from Mariupol, she is demonised and called a Nazi or a Khokhol by Putin inspired Russians (when Putin is himself a fascist). Her city lies in ruins, 10's thousands are dead, more raped, tortured or injured, family now enslaved under Putin, all cultural references to Ukraine or Ukrainainsm removed or destroyed.

This is far more like 30s Germany was for Jews, from multiple accounts, before it tragically got much worse for Jews. Actual genocide against citizens (and its messaging) is different from poor language around 1 plank of immigration policy.

Conservative party is a shambles, it so often proves itself the nasty party, I think we're all looking forward to change. Johnson was a bullshitting self agrandising idiot domestically, but none of their dog whistle populist utterances are similar to that period.

There're using real issues, like lack of GPs and schooling and trying to blame it on immigrants. Ofc it isnt their fault nor ethnicity related. But there is a grown up argument to be had on tax take versus availability of public services/pensions/housing and social justice.
 


clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,634
and arranging the odd loan and whatnot, i spose they are all the same

Yes and being investigated. The appointment of senior figures needs reform quite obviously and quickly.

When politics and the relationship
between the BBC becomes toxic its quite easy to figure point at people's previous careers or obvious political allegiances. Whether that be political office, personal friendships or donations.

Requires reform urgently.

Then what Lineker said or what he's allowed to say can be looked at in isolation and not muddied by everything going on in the background.
 








Albion and Premier League latest from Sky Sports


Top
Link Here