Football Agents.

[DavidinSouthampton]

Absolutely, it's swings and roundabouts. This window seems that we've been mainly on the receiving end of some unpleasant transfer business.

I was just going to post elsewhere "You win some, you lose some". We just seem to be on the receiving end at the moment.

And am I right in getting the impression that Burnley have been interested in ward for a while, and so this is not necessarily just a last-minute swoop. if that is the case, they could have hijacked the deal whenever it might have been going through.

There would also be the possibility of him/them changing their mind and ward coming back to us...... but I don't expect that to happen. There was, though, the Inigo Calderon to Southampton thing a couple of years ago - not directly comparable, I know, but..........

These things are never simple.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Most of the muppets which have agents do not need them though. Or are they really so useless they cannot sort their own deal out? I can understand the cream needing people to look after their affairs but If I was an average footballer, which most are, I'd sort my own transfer out and pocket the 10% myself.

 

[BigGully]

Bad anythings are by the very nature well ..... bad, whether its a bad player, bad owner, bad CEO, bad steward or everyone's favourite pantomine villain bad agents.

Good agents rightly have a role to play in the highly complex football industry.

Players need help, every club has a dedicated department that actively seeks to replace its own players with players deemed more beneficial to the club, its a precarious profession at the best of times.

For every Liam Bridcutt or Will Buckley that go on to earned a lucrative move there are a hundred professional players earning low wages, without any security beyond a measly season contract.

Liam Bridcutt was offered an original 3 month deal by BHA, hardly a resounding endorsement of his future worth and how did you think Liam ever came to BHA in the first instant, yes through an agent.

So agents are crucial to the players and to clubs that use them all the time.

 

[BigGully]

Most of the muppets which have agents do not need them though. Or are they really so useless they cannot sort their own deal out? I can understand the cream needing people to look after their affairs but If I was an average footballer, which most are, I'd sort my own transfer out and pocket the 10% myself.

All professional footballers have agents ??

Would you be willing to pay an agent 10% if he negotiated a contract worth 30% more than you would have negotiated ??

 

[Justice]

Nottingham Forest don't seem to have any issues with agents.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Its money in general sadly, whether that be down to agents or TV payments - the game has reached the point of no return.

Nottingham Forest don't seem to have any issues with agents.

I wonder why.....

 

[spring hall convert]

The Clayton deal, now ward not turning up both suggest the work of agents?

I'm sure Ward didn't need a great deal of convincing. I'd imagine they are paying him double what we could.

 

[portlock seagull]

Just to comment that the good old Albion are not always the victim in this. A couple of years ago I was sitting in my daughter's front room in Leicestershire and reading the Leicester mercury, where Sven Goran Eriksson was writing about how much he was looking forward to working with a particular forward when he signed.

That forward was Craig Mackail-Smith, and a couple of days later, he signed for us.

But the whole Ward thing is intensely annoying. And I think Ward is a decent bloke so can't help thinking he is just a pawn in all this.

Maybe a pawn. Definately been a prawn however. He's in charge and doesn't look good in all this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

All professional footballers have agents ??

Would you be willing to pay an agent 10% if he negotiated a contract worth 30% more than you would have negotiated ??

I would have negotiated the 30% myself. It's not difficult to work out market rates and price yourself accordingly....let's not forget this is what agents do.

 

[BigGully]

I would have negotiated the 30% myself. It's not difficult to work out market rates and price yourself accordingly.

You wouldnt have the expertise, you might know how a few of your mates are paid and at what level, but beyond that you would have limited knowledge.

Another critical role of an agent is to let your player continue training without hindrance and maybe more importantly retain personal relationships between you and the manager, the agent will mostly deal with the CEO and vise versa.

The old fashioned way of knocking on the managers door and thrashing out a deal, more likely in favour of the club thankfully are long gone.

The PFA do a service which seems good, they more than most know the rates of pay for each player at each club, but for me I guess they are unable to drum up interest from other clubs to enhance your negotiating hand, so if I was a player I would look for a well run agency with particular skills that would suit my own position within the game.

These days BHA are a sophisticated operation, they shouldn't be phased by an agent trying to secure the best deal for his client, we have moved on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You wouldnt have the expertise, you might know how a few of your mates are paid and at what level, but beyond that you would have limited knowledge.

Expertise? What expertise? There are hundreds of football agents floating around and I do not believe it is them, and only them, who have the wit and knowledge to stike the best deal. It is not a special god given talent.

 

[BigGully]

Expertise? What expertise? There are hundreds of football agents floating around and I do not believe it is them, and only them, who have the wit and knowledge to stike the best deal. It is not a special god given talent.

How as a player will you know which clubs want which players ?

How would you know if as a middling Championship journeyman, there might be a deal in the new Australian league or other, as it seems your club dont want you anymore ?

Who are you going to let look over your new contract, protect the player from prohibitive add ons requested from the club etc ?

Agents dont just hijack deals and take a swipe of the players and clubs money, they deal with young talent perhaps that have been released and keep them in the game, they ask for little, only cashing in when that player gets a 'big' move etc.

You think you have the necessary expertise, well you wouldnt have many clients ......

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How as a player will you know which clubs want which players ?

How would you know if as a middling Championship journeyman, there might be a deal in the new Australian league or other, as it seems your club dont want you anymore ?

Who are you going to let look over your new contract, protect the player from prohibitive add ons requested from the club etc ?

Agents dont just hijack deals and take a swipe of the players and clubs money, they deal with young talent perhaps that have been released and keep them in the game, they ask for little, only cashing in when that player gets a 'big' move etc.

You think you have the necessary expertise, well you wouldnt have many clients ......

1) I'd think about where I want to work and do some research, make some calls etc, let it be known I'm avaliable and come agent bullshit free. I imagine the football industry is like most others in that on-the-inside you can find out a lot more than on-the-outside. In fact due to the constant movement of personel I imagine it is very easy to know people/contacts all over the country quite quickly. E.g. Kemy seems to spend most matches standing around chatting to people he knows.
2) If I felt unwanted and wanted a move to a foreign country I would probably employ an agent as these circumstances would probably require one. In this situation I would be happy to buy in knowledge and expertise which I do not have.
3) I would get an employment lawyer to look over my contract.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How as a player will you know which clubs want which players ?

As a player I'm sure I'd know that Brighton have a lot of vacancies.

 

[keaton]

.
3) I would get an employment lawyer to look over my contract.

Good idea, we'll drive the mercenary scum of agents out of football and replace them with lawyers.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Another critical role of an agent is to let your player continue training without hindrance

What do you mean by this? Football is at best a part-time job. Spending a few hours thinking about your career in your vast down time is hardly going to affect you.

Are you an agent yourself? Genuine question as you seem to be dressing up this profession, with some very tenuous reasons, as a must have service. I do not think it is a difficult job and I am not convinced that the vast majority of players need this service. And if I was a played I would not have one.

 

[BigGully]

What do you mean by this? Football is at best a part-time job. Spending a few hours thinking about your career in your vast down time is hardly going to affect you.

Are you an agent yourself? Genuine question as you seem to be dressing up this profession, with some very tenuous reasons, as a must have service. I do not think it is a difficult job and I am not convinced that the vast majority of players need this service. And if I was a played I would not have one.

Of course I am not an agent, I am fan just like you with a wholly different opinion on footballers.

I just do not buy into this lame viewpoint where footballers are dumb and having to use professional services like everyone else, somehow shows just how daft they are, why would you and I use recruitment agencies ??

How about professional golfers, cricketers, rugby players, snooker players, dart players, actors, singers, why do they too feel the need to use agents, yet are rarely considers as dumb.

Sometimes you just have to allow those with different skill sets to help you on your way.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Of course I am not an agent, I am fan just like you with a wholly different opinion on footballers.

I just do not buy into this lame viewpoint where footballers are dumb and having to use professional services like everyone else, somehow shows just how daft they are, why would you and I use recruitment agencies ??

How about professional golfers, cricketers, rugby players, snooker players, dart players, actors, singers, why do they too feel the need to use agents, yet are rarely considers as dumb.

Sometimes you just have to allow those with different skill sets to help you on your way.

But this is my point. I do not believe most footballers are so useless they need agents. If anything having agents perpetuates the idea. And I'm not convinced agents always work in the best interests of their clients either. To a degree I think football agency is a service which invented itself and feeds off the insecurity of players and almost has a monopoly now; there have been allegations that some managers will not let you sign for them if you do not go with their preferred man.

As mentioned I appreciate those at the highest level need people but do lower league English players really need to pay thousands for their service? I reckon you can shoot 90% of all football agents tomorrow and the game and the wellbeing of the players would be no worse off. At the end of the day it is their choice but I reckon most could get away with doing it themselves and this is my point. I'd be happy for you to shoot 90% of all football agents in an attempt to prove me wrong though.

Anyway, it's an interesting debate. I will wish you a good weekend as I need to head off now.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I hope FFP will fix the problem of unsustainably high footballer wages, but I doubt it. There needs to be a wage cap, it's the only solution, but reduction of influence of football agents would certainly help, if it is even possible.[/QUOTE]

Personally, I think its gone too far.
A huge gaping black hole just swallowing up vast sums of money, whilst in the real world its still a real struggle for a lot of people. Any sport or industry awash with money, attracts the more unsavoury elements of society. The opportunists, fly-boys, chancers, barrow boys. Quick witted and sharp. They jump on the bandwagon and milk it for all its worth.
For years, the big money in boxing attracted the criminal element and chancers. Football wasn't big bucks. It was working class, cloth cap and £20 per week for players. No spivs attracted by that.
IMHO the PFA should handle all footballers affairs. There would be control through a central body and there would be no need for independent agents, driving through unnecessary transfers and taking huge money out of the game. Its all about retaining money within the game and benefitting the whole structure. So much money has come into football in the last few years that every professional club should be on a sound footing for a long time ahead. Instead, two thirds of all tv income goes straight into the pockets of players and agents. It is truly absurd that the authorities allow this to go on and it is only going to get worse.
You don't mind superstars earning big bucks but very ordinary footballers get paid more money ( many for not playing ) than senior executives in multi-national companies responsible for thousands of staff and then get transferred for the same money that you could spend on 30-40 houses or a private jet.
It is bonkers!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

How as a player will you know which clubs want which players ?

How would you know if as a middling Championship journeyman, there might be a deal in the new Australian league or other, as it seems your club dont want you anymore ?

Who are you going to let look over your new contract, protect the player from prohibitive add ons requested from the club etc ?

Agents dont just hijack deals and take a swipe of the players and clubs money, they deal with young talent perhaps that have been released and keep them in the game, they ask for little, only cashing in when that player gets a 'big' move etc.

You think you have the necessary expertise, well you wouldnt have many clients ......

Actually I think you have a point. I've just looked at the website of New Era and it lists these services:

Insurances
Relocation assistance
House purchasing
Overseas Property
Holidays
Mobile phone and technology assistance
Technology consultants
Jewellery specialists
Tailor-made suit specialists
Car purchase & Car Leasing

And I reckon I'd struggle with all of these services. I mean, how on earth does one book a holiday? Or hire a car? Or use a mobile phone? And every footballer needs a jewellery specialist.