Falkland Islands lie in Argentinian waters, UN commission rules

[London Irish]

Well the latest steel in doubt is in Port Talbot. The company that owns it come from/based in India. How about we stop giving aid to India and use it to stop the closure of these steelworks.

How about we pick on some bloated tax dodging fat cats closer to home rather than some charity workers building a few shithouses for people with nothing in India?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

All good points - the Argentine people did a brave and courageous thing in getting rid of their dictator and restoring democracy. By any test now, the roots of Argentine democracy are strong. That's why their legitimate territorial claims can no longer be dismissed in a high-handed fashion by us by pointing to some Charlie Chaplin dictator goon.

We should respect Argentine democracy and also respect the findings of the UN and return to the negotiating table where we were rightly before Galtieri. A long period of joint sovereignty would satisfy all sides, get rid of the ridiculous and wasteful military spending and would allow some proper economic development. The Falklanders themselves need it, half of them earn pitiful wages of less than 15k a year. Yes they would moan like all NIMBYs fearing a planning application but less than 3,000 people can't decide the fate of two great nations, that's farcical Ealing Comedy Passport to Pimlico stuff.

There is no legitimate claim.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Your self-imposed posting rule doesn't stop you spouting EU nonsense on multiple threads though does it?

I know, I wasn't going to be deflected on to a completely unrelated topic but couldn't help but point out the irony of the other posters position of wanting to intervene in a unilateral protectionist way (which may be entirely justified/legitimate) breaching EU rules. The rules of a club he and you want to continue to defer to. Are you saying we have a free hand in supporting our Steel industry how we see fit?

 

[pastafarian]

We should respect Argentine democracy and also respect the findings of the UN .

What about Falklands Democracy? you still insisting of washing your hands of them

A long period of joint sovereignty would satisfy all sides,

wouldnt satisfy the islanders though would it,but as you have already shown your attitude to them is YOU.

 

[SeagullinExile]

"Needlessly killed". Er, we were at war at the time, HMS Sheffield etc?

And if any Argentinians are reading this, so sorry for any offence caused.

She was no danger to anyone when she was sunk, heading back to port in fact. Thatcher gave the order just because she could. Sheffield, Coventry etc were actually in the war zone, so a tad different. Its also reported by some, that the Rapier missiles protecting the task force in San Carlos Bay were poorly positioned. Allowing the Argentine Mirages' windows in which to launch attacks, although some reports also vehemently deny this.


One things for sure, Thatcher was a bitch.

 

[pastafarian]

Your self-imposed posting rule doesn't stop you spouting EU nonsense on multiple threads though does it?

He doesnt post nonsense though,you have that market cornered

 

[JC Footy Genius]

She was no danger to anyone when she was sunk, heading back to port in fact. Thatcher gave the order just because she could.Sheffield, Coventry etc were actually in the war zone, so a tad different. Its also reported by some, that the Rapier missiles protecting the task force in San Carlos Bay were poorly positioned. Allowing the Argentine Mirages' windows in which to launch attacks, although some reports also vehemently deny this.


One things for sure, Thatcher was a bitch.

Interesting military tactical analysis. So an enemy weapons platform (The second largest surface unit of the Argentine Navy) is only a threat if in range or heading towards our forces? It doesn't have any effect on how we deploy our forces or allocate surveillance to make sure it doesn't turn a few degrees back towards our forces ...

 

[dsr-burnley]

Interesting military tactical analysis. So an enemy weapons platform (The second largest surface unit of the Argentine Navy) is only a threat if in range or heading towards our forces? It doesn't have any effect on how we deploy our forces or allocate surveillance to make sure it doesn't turn a few degrees back towards our forces ...

It's like playing "What time is it, Mr Wolf". The ship can crawl as near as it likes to the UK forces, but as long as it has its back turned when you catch it, it's safe.

I'm surprised there isn't more fuss about the shooting down of the Argentine planes. Many of them were heading back to base when they were shot, as well - these anti-aircraft missiles work better when pointed at the exhaust. (So they tell me.)

 

[SeagullinExile]

Interesting military tactical analysis. So an enemy weapons platform (The second largest surface unit of the Argentine Navy) is only a threat if in range or heading towards our forces? It doesn't have any effect on how we deploy our forces or allocate surveillance to make sure it doesn't turn a few degrees back towards our forces ...

Matter of opinions. Mine happens to differ from yours. Deal with it. Or not for that matter. I really couldn't care less

 

[Pavilionaire]

She was no danger to anyone when she was sunk, heading back to port in fact. Thatcher gave the order just because she could. Sheffield, Coventry etc were actually in the war zone, so a tad different. Its also reported by some, that the Rapier missiles protecting the task force in San Carlos Bay were poorly positioned. Allowing the Argentine Mirages' windows in which to launch attacks, although some reports also vehemently deny this.


One things for sure, Thatcher was a bitch.

The British government had announced before the end of April that the 200 mile exclusion zone around the Falklands would be extended, both sides knew this. Some participants suggest that the General Belgrano was not returning to port but in fact still on manoeuvre and still militarily active.

 

[SeagullinExile]

The British government had announced before the end of April that the 200 mile exclusion zone around the Falklands would be extended, both sides knew this. Some participants suggest that the General Belgrano was not returning to port but in fact still on manoeuvre and still militarily active.

I don't think anyone has ever denied that it was within the exclusion zone. The point I was making is that sinking the Belgrano had no effect on the outcome of the war, so was unnecessary. It was purely a show of strength and nothing more, in my opinion of course.

 

[clapham_gull]

I always thought the Brits abroad thing was odd/wrong.

Visted Gibraltar just to see and really didn't like it.

Problem I had was I love Spain - well the food really. Came home that way and it felt like I was home already. Didn't help that England were playing that day and all the locals were in colours.

Still have a bit of a problem with Gibraltar even after to talking to the locals - it's mid eighties Disney Land England.

But - after watching a few documentaries on the Falklands there is something a bit different there. I find it really really hard to disagree with this:

We are as much a people as those in Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil and Chile and many other South American countries whose inhabitants are of principally European or African descent..

It's a interlectually lazy to even mention the empire or colonialism and paradoxical to think that a land mass that was colonised itself has more claim over the islands based on distance.

The Argentinian state needs to grow up, acknowledge the complexities of it's own history in conjunction with the present and drop the claim. The French aren't banging on our door regarding the channel islands for instance.

The Falklanders (after the above) need to understand that they can't rely on the UK Tax payer to protect them. They have chosen to live with the penguins.

If there is any oil down there you can share the proceeds.

That to me is the morally acceptable grown up solution that rises above ridiculous nationalistic chest beating on both sides. I'm anti-Royalist, hate the conservatives but acknowledge that by a majority and turn out that puts our own electorate to shame - they consider themselves to be part of this country. Bit like the Isle of Wight but miles away. I have to respect that - although I think they are bonkers.

They need to be allowed/encouraged to claim a level of independence and become truely self sufficient, but it starts with Argentina....

 

[W.C.]

I always thought the Brits abroad thing was odd/wrong.

Visted Gibraltar just to see and really didn't like it.

Problem I had was I love Spain - well the food really. Came home that way and it felt like I was home already. Didn't help that England were playing that day and all the locals were in colours.

Still have a bit of a problem with Gibraltar even after to talking to the locals - it's mid eighties Disney Land England.

But - after watching a few documentaries on the Falklands there is something a bit different there. I find it really really hard to disagree with this:



It's a interlectually lazy to even mention the empire or colonialism and paradoxical to think that a land mass that was colonised itself has more claim over the islands based on distance.

The Argentinian state needs to grow up, acknowledge the complexities of it's own history in conjunction with the present and drop the claim. The French aren't banging on our door regarding the channel islands for instance.

The Falklanders (after the above) need to understand that they can't rely on the UK Tax payer to protect them. They have chosen to live with the penguins.

If there is any oil down there you can share the proceeds.

That to me is the morally acceptable grown up solution that rises above ridiculous nationalistic chest beating on both sides. I'm anti-Royalist, hate the conservatives but acknowledge that by a majority and turn out that puts our own electorate to shame - they consider themselves to be part of this country. Bit like the Isle of Wight but miles away. I have to respect that - although I think they are bonkers.

They need to be allowed/encouraged to claim a level of independence and become truely self sufficient, but it starts with Argentina....

That.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't think anyone has ever denied that it was within the exclusion zone. The point I was making is that sinking the Belgrano had no effect on the outcome of the war, so was unnecessary. It was purely a show of strength and nothing more, in my opinion of course.

It had a huge effect on the outcome of the war. Not a single Argentinian warship left port after she was sunk. We then had to deal with their air force & the invasion troops, but that was a different matter.
The Argentinian knowledge of the islands was so sparse that they chose to invade in April, which was the start of winter, with their troops in cotton uniforms.
Their dead are buried on the islands because they reused to take them back.

 

[beorhthelm]

Matter of opinions. Mine happens to differ from yours. Deal with it. Or not for that matter. I really couldn't care less

opinon, or basic strategic military nouse? you put your military assests near a theatre of war, one you started, you should expect it to be targeted. the exclusion zone was only ever a arbitary boundry for commanders operational guidlines.

 

[Landgull]

It is not anti Brit/UK to be anti imperialist. Our foreign territories are a reminder of an aggressive invasion of much of the world. We are what we are because of our dominance of the seas, our trading of the resources of other nations. That isn't anti British, that is the history of Britain, you can accept your own history without it being self loathing, the good and the bad.

However you are right, should the inhabitants of any of our 14 foreign territories wish independence, or sovereignty under someone else, we'd let them determine that democratically. We didn't spill blood to retain the territories, we spilt blood to protect the rights of the inhabitants. I think that is an important distinction.

Agree with this.

 

[Landgull]

The international law principle of self determination is that inhabitants have the right to chose their sovereignty and international political status without interference.

It does not mean you have to be independent or self governing.

Correct, it's the inhabitants choice.

 

[Landgull]

Those 'godforsaken rocks' are somebody's home - and have been their home for nine generations. Their home was then invaded by a hostile foreign would-be colonial power, intent on empire building, That is 'theft of land' - and wow! shock horror, it wasn't Great Britain that was doing it!
Those oppressed and invaded people then appealed to us for help to expel the land thieves that were trying to turn them into an unwilling colony of Argentina. I'm rather proud we responded to that plea, and no, that is far from being the only thing I'm proud of about my country.

I agree, and following that operation the door has opened to tourism and a greater income to the Islands.
Whilst I was not part of the operation, friends who were have returned on several occasions to meet many of the Island friends they made.

 

[daveinprague]

Came up on my FB feed today

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/fe...m&src=fba&type=wca&page=battlefieldsofthepast