[Albion] Fabian Hürzeler.... Football genius!

[severnside gull]

Defensively he’s barely had what anyone would determine a first choice back 4 all season and has been forced into constant changes, using unfit CBs and playing midfielders at RB.

I agree. But what a success at right back Weiffer is proving to be.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The worst season in both teams history for 40+ years.
Surprised you’re comparing cup with league

Out of interest, how do you measure if the league is strong or weak? I have been trying to do compare 2022/2023 with 2024/2025 and have not come to any meaningful conclusion other than right at the bottom.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I actually think overall the standard of the PL is stronger than ever and that is why the bottom 3 are cut adrift and why it's so tight at the top. The teams in the middle places between say 7th and 17th are stronger than they've ever been. Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, Palace - these are all really good teams and even the likes of Everton and Wolves are actually decent sides with good managers. All of those teams can easily beat the top 6 on their day as we've seen many times this season, more so than at any other time since the PL started. The gap between 1st and 17th in terms of ability of the sides is smaller than it's ever been.

Yes the bottom three are shite and the three coming up from the Championship are likely to be again next season as it's so hard for them to compete with the teams in 7th to 17th, let alone the top 6.

I agree and I think this is why the likes of Spurs and Manchester United have been caught out by the rise of the new middle class in the Premier League. Football has got a lot smarter and a good understanding of analytics, combined with innovative thinking and a dash of bravery can go some way to reduce the financial chasm that still exists between the the perennial CL clubs and the rest.

The real problem teams such as us and the likes of Brentford and Fulham is holding on to the talent that has progressed us up the league. Spurs and Utd are dumpster fires of incompetent ownership and rampant egos thinking they know best, rather than well oiled machines with a coherent vision.

I expect the premier league to be competitive again next season and that we are well positioned to play our part.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well we disagree.
Bottom 3 teams with low totals
Champions with lower points tally than recent
Standard lower IMO (subjective I know).

To dismiss it as ‘ridiculous’, is well, ridiculous

But those arguments support it being a strong league. It means the Champions didn't beat all and sundry because the standard through most of the league was high. Some big teams struggled because there were very few easy games. The high number of teams reaching 65 points also points toward a high quality season. There may have been seasons when ManCity, ManUtd, Spurs etc. could have got away with being average by their standards, but they've all been punished because of the standard of teams.

I think it was one of the most competitive PL seasons in a long time. Some great football played by teams right down to recently Wolves and Everton showing some form.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Yes exactly. Their worst season for 40+ years and yet still good enough to reach a European final. It suggests that the standard of the Premier League isn't so poor after all. To be honest, I'd say calling it a poor League is ridiculous.

Its become a truism on here, that this is a weak league because Man Utd are weak. Forgetting that compared to our 6th place season the likes of Liverpool, Villa and Chelsea are much stronger, not to mention Bournemouth, Forest, Fulham.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

I think completely the opposite re the teams beating everyone, and to me it’s not improving but actually going towards the mid-table teams therefore dropping.

Or the mid table teams are improving. So while the bigger clubs are getting less points it’s because the league has become more competitive and the mid table sides are taking more points from them.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I agree and I think this is why the likes of Spurs and Manchester United have been caught out by the rise of the new middle class in the Premier League. Football has got a lot smarter and a good understanding of analytics, combined with innovative thinking and a dash of bravery can go some way to reduce the financial chasm that still exists between the the perennial CL clubs and the rest.

The real problem teams such as us and the likes of Brentford and Fulham is holding on to the talent that has progressed us up the league. Spurs and Utd are dumpster fires of incompetent ownership and rampant egos thinking they know best, rather than well oiled machines with a coherent vision.

I expect the premier league to be competitive again next season and that we are well positioned to play our part.

It has been a sea change in approach. The air of invincibility of the 'big' clubs has been shattered. I dare say Brighton's success in recent years has woken other clubs up to taking the game to whomever you are up against. So many positive approaches from so many teams this season. Been very refreshing and results back that up.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Or the mid table teams are improving. So while the bigger clubs are getting less points it’s because the league has become more competitive and the mid table sides are taking more points from them.

I can't see how anyone can look at us, Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Palace, Forest, Villa, Newcastle and recently Wolves and not say there has been a big jump in collective quality.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Or the mid table teams are improving. So while the bigger clubs are getting less points it’s because the league has become more competitive and the mid table sides are taking more points from them.

But that feels because their levels have dropped. City, Arsenal, Chelsea. Liverpool have sustained it, but I certainly wouldn’t say they were perhaps the only one that did. Villa have been flattered by a late run, boosted by loan signings. Chelsea, in and out

Utd, Spurs etc…. West Ham post Moyes, Wolves were poor for a long time, Everton improved when Dyche left

The biggest improvement to me was Bournemouth and obviously Forest, perhaps Fulham.

@Herr Tubthumper to answer your question, more an opinion, rather than anything mathematical.

@Bold Seagull - I don’t agree for the reasons above….

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Me too! I was doing exactly the same thing!

I know we won so all good but I just can't understand why an experienced pro would do that?! The kid who's just turned 17 on the other flank showed him what he should be doing.

OT but I do think this is an issue with Pervis. I quite often find myself frustrated with his decision making and overall think he is a weak link in the side these days. Hoping Ferdi is the answer at LB next season or we sign an alternative if not.

Yeh. FH was correct to go crazy at this

I mean, last night we weren't displaying much in the way of conventional game management, which I applaud, but that shot was just utterly brain dead.

In Pervis defence. He's got back from injury and we've had to play him all game every game. I think he's looked poor through this spell, but you could argue that, the constant travelling in international breaks, the lack of rotation has frazzled him a bit.

A summer on a beach and some serious pressure on his place, there's a good chance we'll see the old Pervis back next season

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I can't see how anyone can look at us, Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Palace, Forest, Villa, Newcastle and recently Wolves and not say there has been a big jump in collective quality.

I actually thought Brentford were shocking when they beat us, we were worse.
Wolves were terrible at The Amex and not particularly good last week.
Newcastle have just maintained it.
The team that City lost to, were poor at the start…..

The quality feels and looks less to me.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But that feels because their levels have dropped. City, Arsenal, Chelsea. Liverpool have sustained it, but I certainly wouldn’t say they were perhaps the only one that did. Villa have been flattered by a late run, boosted by loan signings. Chelsea, in and out

Utd, Spurs etc…. West Ham post Moyes, Wolves were poor for a long time, Everton improved when Dyche left

The biggest improvement to me was Bournemouth and obviously Forest, perhaps Fulham.

@Herr Tubthumper to answer your question, more an opinion, rather than anything mathematical.

@Bold Seagull - I don’t agree for the reasons above….

Villa got through to the 1/4 finals of the Champions League. Arsenal the semis. The only stumbling block for British sides was PSG. We have 2 sides in the Europa League final who have absolutely struggled in the PL but excelled in Europe. Chelsea in the other final. None of this points toward the PL being weaker.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

He's done very, very well - all we need now is to learn how to beat sides that play with a low block, and have zero interest in attacking, save for breakaways.

See Leicester, Wolveees, Southampton etc. at home.

For sure we play better against teams who want to attack us.

Let's hope we keep Mitoma, JPVH and Carlos and realy kick on next season.

This is what we have to do to kick on.

Our record against the top teams is exceptional. Yesterday's game was ridiculously open, but that is unusual.

To advance, up the league, we need more goals in those tight games. This is probably less to do with tactics and more to do with raising the level of attacking quality

 

[goldstone]

I agree. But what a success at right back Weiffer is proving to be.

Don't entirely disagree, but he was done for speed a couple of times in the first half and both occasions could have resulted in us conceding goals.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Villa got through to the 1/4 finals of the Champions League. Arsenal the semis. The only stumbling block for British sides was PSG. We have 2 sides in the Europa League final who have absolutely struggled in the PL but excelled in Europe. Chelsea in the other final. None of this points toward the PL being weaker.

You can’t compare cups with league.

Our champions and current champions didn’t make the semis.

Edit - The PL is still the best league in the world, but you can be the best, and be at a weaker level

 

[Bold Seagull]

You can’t compare cups with league.

Our champions and current champions didn’t make the semis.

Edit - The PL is still the best league in the world, but you can be the best, and be at a weaker level

Well, interesting debate, I wasn't comparing cups and league, I was comparing performance levels. You also can't really make an argument that you can't compare them, then point out our champions and previous champions didn't make the semis.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Out of interest, how do you measure if the league is strong or weak? I have been trying to do compare 2022/2023 with 2024/2025 and have not come to any meaningful conclusion other than right at the bottom.

The league is the strongest it has ever been.
I base this deduction on the amount of money in the game that means the EPL buys the best players,
that coaches are getting smarter, and that there is no hindrance to improvement.

My argument is on a par with my assessment of the quality of motor vehicles.
Yes there are some who will say you can't beat a 1960s MG with genuine gas guzzling power,
but this is whimsical nostalgia.
The MPG, the kit, the reliability and safety of cars I have seen or owned have just got better and better.

This is how it works.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Well, interesting debate, I wasn't comparing cups and league, I was comparing performance levels. You can't also can't really make an argument that you can't compare them, then point out our champions and previous champions didn't make the semis.

Sure, but that’s the point.
I was just being disparaging of yours hopefully in a friendly way
BTW you were, by bringing European performance in.


But you can’t compare them.

 

[Kit Napper]

You can’t compare cups with league.

Our champions and current champions didn’t make the semis.

Edit - The PL is still the best league in the world, but you can be the best, and be at a weaker level

Can't escape the thought that you've reached the conclusion that the league must be weaker this year just to defend your view that Hurzeler isn't a good manager. I can't see any other logic to it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Sure, but that’s the point.
I was just being disparaging of yours hopefully in a friendly way
BTW you were, by bringing European performance in.


But you can’t compare them.

So there is no yard stick then really in any sense. Just subjectivity.