[Albion] Fabian Hürzeler - A fab thread on our manager and his tactics

[singing4seagulls]

It was a clear tactical decision, probably data driven, because for the last 5-10 minutes of each half it was the same. They’ve probably used data to work out a higher percentage of mistakes occur at the back later in the half, or perhaps more attacking first and second balls are won from direct passing.

It was a clear tactical decision

Yeah that's a really interesting shout with it being data driven. As you say, it's very clearly a tactical thing as it was every single ball.

I think I just struggle with it a little - I need to try and get RDZ philosophy out of my subconscious and try to be more open minded.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Ok, so with benefit of hindsight:

• What do we think the manager got right?
• What should we have done differently?

My take:

1. The starting 11 I think he probably got about right.
A goal up at halftime probably validates that.

At right back, Lamptey/Veltman just back from injury, so not fit to start and didn't look as effective once they came on. Good to get them some minutes though.

Ayari scored a worldie last game, but I think was right call for him not to start (although a harsh one from his perspective). I know a lot on here were wanting him to start.

That said, I think Gomez might have been more effective on the pitch from the start, or earlier in the subs.

2. We don't have much firepower up front ATM.
Felt like that was our main undoing this game, which I can't blame the manager for.

This is so frustrating though, as at points this season our attack has looked immense including bench options, but we've had no defenders. We're now in the opposite situation.

Welbeck wasn't having his best day, but nobody to replace him with. We look lightweight now in attack for people who can pull the trigger without Mitoma, March, Pedro, Rutter, Ferguson, Enciso (these last two on previous season form).

3. Looking more defensively sound.
Not sure if this is manager playing a less high line, or just solid partnership again, with Dunk getting back up to speed and JP back in the squad.

But, it looks to me like in possession we went more to a 3 with Wieffer, Estupinan often further up the pitch than Adringa. I guess a benefit of Wieffer at right back. But in most situations Dunk and JP not being exposed halfway up the pitch. Baleba also stepping more into defence when we are higher to give some extra pace. Feels like we're learning.

4. Subs
Gruda and Gomez subs very nearly worked. The subs gave us a huge opportunity in the final minutes they were on. So fair play.

Also, Gruda's delivery on free kicks and corners is repeatedly immense btw.

But, I think Ayari didn't quite work out. I know before the game lots were calling for Ayari to start, but outside of the handball (let's ignore that) I didn't think he added much today. Gave the ball away a few times, but also like that he will run the whole pitch and win it back. Thought it was right to take off Hinshelwood, but Gomez on at that point to add some bite and take the game to them would have been better in hindsight.

As said, think the subs we needed were in attack and we only had an unplayed U21 player as an option up front, and Lamptey the only option for a winger. When we're selecting our 2nd/3rd choices for our front positions it's always going to be hard against the top teams.

Summary
Overall I think a point is probably fair, but outside of a threadbare squad, I felt I saw signs of a better defensive setup.

I would really like to see the manager get Adringa his confidence back - he doesn't even take a shot these days. Not sure what has happened to him as we know the quality is there. With Mitoma's back troubles he's potentially got a few games to show he's still got it.

This is generally an excellent post. Two things though:

1) we didn’t play with a 3 at any point today. But we were much more defensively solid, and that needs to be applauded.

2) whilst I didn’t think Hinsh had his best game today, he played a very specific role that gave us defensive solidity and allowed Baleba to be more proactive in a) searching out the ball and b) proactively pressing when the ball came into midfield. The dynamic changed when Hinsh went off, as neither Ayari nor Baleba sat between the two CBs when building possession - both were trying to press higher, and we lost shape, as a result of that, in central areas.

As an aside, I don’t quite understand a) how Adingra stayed on as long as he did, b) why we brought Minteh off when he was the only goal threat we had, c) why Lamptey came on at full back if the plan was to shift him further forward 5 minutes later, especially when Gruda was on the bench… we lost impetuous because, put simply, we lost our attacking threat on the counter. I know we didn’t have a ton of options on the bench, but it played into Newcastle’s hands somewhat.

 

[singing4seagulls]

This is generally an excellent post. Two things though:

1) we didn’t play with a 3 at any point today. But we were much more defensively solid, and that needs to be applauded.

2) whilst I didn’t think Hinsh had his best game today, he played a very specific role that gave us defensive solidity and allowed Baleba to be more proactive in a) searching out the ball and b) proactively pressing when the ball came into midfield. The dynamic changed when Hinsh went off, as neither Ayari nor Baleba sat between the two CBs when building possession - both were trying to press higher, and we lost shape, as a result of that, in central areas.

As an aside, I don’t quite understand a) how Adingra stayed on as long as he did, b) why we brought Minteh off when he was the only goal threat we had, c) why Lamptey came on at full back if the plan was to shift him further forward 5 minutes later, especially when Gruda was on the bench… we lost impetuous because, put simply, we lost our attacking threat on the counter. I know we didn’t have a ton of options on the bench, but it played into Newcastle’s hands somewhat.

It was only resembling a 3 at points when Estupinan was up near their corner flag. It was only for small glimpses, but I think it's less a 3 more of the positional flexibility FH offers his players.

I'll keep an eye on it as I think it's this tactical flexibility thing, to keep some sort of shape when players pootle off to cause overloads and "chaos".

Fair shout on Hinshelwood. He does help pull things together. Still think Gomez would have been the right sub at that point once they had tired a little, but we'll never know.

Also agreed, Lamptey sub was an odd one. The initial sub made sense to give some extra pace, put a dedicated RB in that position once their team had tired and Lamptey didn't have 90 mins in him.

I guess FH felt it wasn't working at right back, so after 15 mins of trying it went to fix it? Or, I think more to the point Adingra was not doing anything and with no other proper wingers on the bench who can help defend (Gruda probably isn't that), he tried to mix it up and have Lamptey have a crack. We all know Lamptey can be productive up on the wing.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

This is generally an excellent post. Two things though:

1) we didn’t play with a 3 at any point today. But we were much more defensively solid, and that needs to be applauded.

2) whilst I didn’t think Hinsh had his best game today, he played a very specific role that gave us defensive solidity and allowed Baleba to be more proactive in a) searching out the ball and b) proactively pressing when the ball came into midfield. The dynamic changed when Hinsh went off, as neither Ayari nor Baleba sat between the two CBs when building possession - both were trying to press higher, and we lost shape, as a result of that, in central areas.

As an aside, I don’t quite understand a) how Adingra stayed on as long as he did, b) why we brought Minteh off when he was the only goal threat we had, c) why Lamptey came on at full back if the plan was to shift him further forward 5 minutes later, especially when Gruda was on the bench… we lost impetuous because, put simply, we lost our attacking threat on the counter. I know we didn’t have a ton of options on the bench, but it played into Newcastle’s hands somewhat.

Good post, agree.

Been very critical about FH particularly defensively out of possession, today was much better.

Also, agree with @singing4seagulls but I would argue that Wieffer struggled in front of us in the first half, and was clearly being Targeted. With both Veltman and Tariq on the bench I would have considered 45 mins each.

On a separate note lovely to see the real Pervis back….

 

[singing4seagulls]

Good post, agree.

Been very critical about FH particularly defensively out of possession, today was much better.

Also, agree with @singing4seagulls but I would argue that Wieffer struggled in front of us in the first half, and was clearly being Targeted. With both Veltman and Tariq on the bench I would have considered 45 mins each.

On a separate note lovely to see the real Pervis back….

Yeah that's fair. I'd expect now they've both had minutes, we'll see one or both for the next game.

Big shout on Pervis! You're right. He did a few classy bits of footwork today that hopefully means he's getting his mojo back.

 

[Napper]

He tried today when Newcastle started over running us . Veltmsn and lamptey into midfield could of helped but his subs today had no impact

 

[Bodian]

his subs today had no impact

Gruda's great cross to Gomez. Had that gone in we'd be raving about his late substitutions!

 

[singing4seagulls]

Realised this in another thread, but I do wonder if we're also lacking experience and leaders in the mix.

RDZ, PBOBE and Tony have always talked about the importance of this. FH too since he's arrived.

When you're a goal ahead in the 89th minute, game management comes to the forefront. It's where experience like Milner and Lallana would have come onto the pitch in previous seasons. We've not got them now, or Gross etc. Just more youngsters on the bench.

Do we think the lack of experienced players is a problem?

That said, the goal came from a free kick that wasn't, so I'm not sure if we're actually missing these leaders or not. Interested to hear how others see it.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Realised this in another thread, but I do wonder if we're also lacking experience and leaders in the mix.

RDZ, PBOBE and Tony have always talked about the importance of this. FH too since he's arrived.

When you're a goal ahead in the 89th minute, game management comes to the forefront. It's where experience like Milner and Lallana would have come onto the pitch in previous seasons. We've not got them now, or Gross etc. Just more youngsters on the bench.

Do we think the lack of experienced players is a problem?

That said, the goal came from a free kick that wasn't, so I'm not sure if we're actually missing these leaders or not. Interested to hear how others see it.

Yes, I maintain one of our biggest losses injuries wise was Milner.

 

[GT49er]

Realised this in another thread, but I do wonder if we're also lacking experience and leaders in the mix.
RDZ, PBOBE and Tony have always talked about the importance of this. FH too since he's arrived.
When you're a goal ahead in the 89th minute, game management comes to the forefront. It's where experience like Milner and Lallana would have come onto the pitch in previous seasons. We've not got them now, or Gross etc. Just more youngsters on the bench
Do we think the lack of experienced players is a problem?
That said, the goal came from a free kick that wasn't, so I'm not sure if we're actually missing these leaders or not. Interested to hear how others see it.

Dunk, Veltman and Welbeck - 100 years old between them. Isn't that enough?

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Good post, agree.

Been very critical about FH particularly defensively out of possession, today was much better.

Also, agree with @singing4seagulls but I would argue that Wieffer struggled in front of us in the first half, and was clearly being Targeted. With both Veltman and Tariq on the bench I would have considered 45 mins each.

On a separate note lovely to see the real Pervis back….

I agree re Weiffer. I thought he was poor today (the odd moment aside), which was a shame after his previous positive outing against WHU, and I think he was lucky he spent most of the game up against Barnes rather than Gordon - I also thought he was quite lucky to stay on the pitch considering how bad Pawson was.

The switch at RB felt overdue by the time it happened, but the switch of pushing Lamptey forward made no sense to me as we lost an outlet down that side (and I’m a Lamptey fan, I just think he’s better coming from deep rather than staying high where he can’t utilise his pace as effectively).

But hey ho, it’s still a point against a very good side.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I agree re Weiffer. I thought he was poor today (the odd moment aside), which was a shame after his previous positive outing against WHU, and I think he was lucky he spent most of the game up against Barnes rather than Gordon - I also thought he was quite lucky to stay on the pitch considering how bad Pawson was.

The switch at RB felt overdue by the time it happened, but the switch of pushing Lamptey forward made no sense to me as we lost an outlet down that side (and I’m a Lamptey fan, I just think he’s better coming from deep rather than staying high where he can’t utilise his pace as effectively).

But hey ho, it’s still a point against a very good side.

I was less unhappy with that as I felt Tariq looked a liability at that point, (just lacking match practice).