[Albion] Fab OUT

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I should just say as well. As far as I have seen, Fabian Hurzeler hasn't mentioned injuries once in a post game interview.

This is to his massive credit. The manager making these excuses is toxic within a club. It's like publicly saying your squad players aren't good enough to come in and do a job.

Compare that with the Aussie Spurs fella who talks about little else, in a pathetic attempt to save his own job.

The football has been a little uninspiring at times, but I think Hurzeler is a decent fella and we're lucky to have him.

 

[Flounce]

I should just say as well. As far as I have seen, Fabian Hurzeler hasn't mentioned injuries once in a post game interview.

This is to his massive credit. The manager making these excuses is toxic within a club. It's like publicly saying your squad players aren't good enough to come in and do a job.

Compare that with the Aussie Spurs fella who talks about little else, in a pathetic attempt to save his own job.

The football has been a little uninspiring at times, but I think Hurzeler is a decent fella and we're lucky to have him.

Good point

 

[Han Solo]

No, no it's not.

Not every team gets the same number of injuries, for a variety of reasons - some self-inflicted and some not.

Not every team has their injuries significantly focused on one area of the team, and is able to "enjoy" them being more evenly spread throughout different playing positions.

The impact of injuries on teams is not equal.

Obviously. That is just life. The impact of injuries isn't equal. The impact of a rainy day isn't equal. The impact of the leg space on the flight to the game isn't equal. The impact of the wallets of the owners isn't equal.

If Fabian Hurzeler pops up in training after the Nottingham lost with the with the " Days missing with injuries"-table or the " Current number of injuries"-table, everyone would lose respect for him because he'd be a sad defeatist wimp. Once you look for external excuses instead of internal solutions, your days are counted. Fortunately Fabian is man enough to burn his game plans instead.

Four days before ten Hag was sacked at United, he said "injuries are holding us back".

Some fans probably called it bullshit, some probably defended it. What you could be fairly certain is that their available first teamers - Onana, Martinez, Lindelöf, De Ligt, Dalot, Mazroui, Ugarte, Eriksen, Garnacho, Rashford, Zirkzee, Casemiro, Höjlund and Amad Traoré - probably didn't agree that they're too shite and need their injured buddies back.

Week later he was sacked, bit like the bloke who spent all last year moaning about how we couldn't do this or that because of our injury situation.
Injuries have impact but they are to be expected and worked around.
Fab burned his match plans after the 7-0 because he knew and everyone knew he should have played someone out of position to make us have two sixes against Nottingham rather than ask Hinshelwood to make the job of 2-3 players.

But then again, maybe I'm just overreacting since I've always been very intolerant of a self-victimisation heavy analysis of why something didn't work out the way you wanted it. "If God helps our right backs stay fit we win more games" may be true, but we have a deep squad and plenty of players available to work around problems rather than blame bad luck. "The ref should have...." is another classic one people use; yes, maybe he should, but he didn't, so what do we do not to be reliant on referee decisions?

The 7-0 loss against Nottingham this season was the only time we had didn't have enough fit players to start established players in comfortable roles. It happened to Roberto 2-3 times last season, it happened to Potter now and then as well. Squads are built to cope with it, managers hired to deal with it. It isn't 1963, we don't have 17 lads in the squad with half of them being local alcoholics. We're built to feel the impact of these things as little as possible.

TLDR: yes injuries have some impact, but throwing them around as excuses is just weak.

 

[Han Solo]

I should just say as well. As far as I have seen, Fabian Hurzeler hasn't mentioned injuries once in a post game interview.

This is to his massive credit. The manager making these excuses is toxic within a club. It's like publicly saying your squad players aren't good enough to come in and do a job.

Yup, agree with every word.

 

[Commander]

Neither to I but imagine they'll be a few moans/boos if it goes wrong. Silly, I know but football fans can be very fickle.

We will 100% be booed off if we lose on Saturday.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We will 100% be booed off if we lose on Saturday.

There will likely be some boos at the final whistle if we lose.

They will be clapped off the pitch, but probably by a much smaller number, than would normally stay

 

[Justice]

with every passing week it seems that Brighton fans become a little bit more precious.

Just look at where we are as a club these days!

Trouble is you can’t say on one hand look at where we are these days buying and selling multi million pound players etc and then expect fans to have no expectations.
If you personally think we should beat Leicester then you also have expectation.

 

[Pliny the Gull]

Trouble is you can’t say on one hand look at where we are these days buying and selling multi million pound players etc and then expect fans to have no expectations.
If you personally think we should beat Leicester then you also have expectation.

Exactly this.
Expectations are why people week in week out support their teams thru a whole load of personal circumstances.

 

[Justice]

Exactly this.
Expectations are why people week in week out support their teams thru a whole load of personal circumstances.

When will we stop using look how far we have come as an excuse is what I want to know. We aren’t that club anymore thanks to TB. The idea we should put with any old crap because we were once grinds me a bit TBH.
I would understand if we didn’t really have the money to invest and just about clung on every season we are simply miles away from that situation at the moment.

 

[Zeberdi]

Thanks for calling me "people", I'll put it on my CV.

The last six months looked a lot like the previous six months, with the difference that people were happy because we were winning against an Ajax close to the relegation zone in Eredivisie, a French team that finished mid-table in Ligue 1 and AEK Athens that has a third or so of our wage budget. These wins along with a handful of other great victories (Spurs and Palace most frequently mentioned) disguised a frequently unwatchable brand of football that resulted in 33 points from our final 32 PL games.

The fatigue thing is a load of tosh. We had a massive squad compared to most teams and rotated frequently. In no other season in frequent memory has fewer players made 3k+ minutes on the pitch. Certainly not in our best ones.

24/25:
Players over 4k minutes: 1
Players between 3k-4k minutes: 2
Players between 2k-8k minutes: 8

23/24

Players over 4k minutes: 0
Players between 3k-4k minutes: 5
Players between 2k-3k minutes: 5

2022/23

Players over 4k minutes: 0
Players between 3k-4k minutes: 6
Players between 2k-3k mintes: 5

2021/22
Players over 4k minutes: 0
Players between 3k-4k minutes: 3
Players between 2k-3k minutes: 7

As for injuries, yes we had them and they had an impact. But we went into last season after what most people saw as a fantastic transfer window - in the thread "Rate the window out of 10", one North Stand Chat-user called @Guinness Boy even gave it a 10 out of 10:



With a chunky nice squad of 26 established footballers - five more than Man City and 3-4 more than most other teams (apart from two or three teams collecting players for fun), we were ready for injuries.

Of course, getting players injured will have some sort of impact. But when we have 26 players and 8-10 players are injured, we still have 16 handsomely paid lads and its the job of the handsomely paid head coach.

Blaming injuries is like blaming referees: its for weaklings. If you go and lose 7-0 to Nottingham, 4-0 against Luton, 6-1 against Villa or 3-0 against Burnley, spare me the bullshit about the eight lads missing - lets focus on what the other 16 professional Premier League players did wrong and how to not make it happen again.

Moaning about injuries is defeatist self-victimisation most frequently expressed by Arsenal or Manchester United fans picking their teams as compensation for a lack of self-confidence. "We're useless and these external uncontrollable things must be the reason!"... bah. Humbug.

People really need to man or possibly woman up when it comes to these things. The reason why you don't win games is never "the ref made a bad call" or "this guy was injured", it is always "we could have done better". Anyone blaming the ref, the weather, The Terrace or injuries isn't being honest to himself. That goes for Potter, De Zerbi, Hurzeler, fans, media.

There’s a fine line between an explanation and an excuse. Some people argue too far over that line excusing poor performances because of injuries (which is perhaps the people your comments are targeting?). Some people argue too far the other way and refuse to acknowledge the real extent that a team’s injuries impacts on performances.

You are arguing the latter and IMO it’s disingenuous to the majority of us here because the majority of us understand that either POV is an over simplification of the complex reasons why teams underperform in any given situation.

The reason most managers don’t bang on about injuries after poor performances in post-match pressers or other interviews (and that’s all any of us have to go on) is because that’s out of their control with little they can do to change an injury situation - so not what the fans want to hear. We want our managers focusing on what IS in their control to improve, working with the players they have available. That doesn’t mean to say however, they are blind or indifferent to the fact that losing key players through injuries can have a major effect on their game plans (and thus team performance) and much more is likely to be said about that in private rather than the public eye to be sure.

Injuries should never be an ‘excuse’ for poor individual performances by team players but they are certainly an explanation in part why team over a period of losing key players to injury can perform below expectations. Especially as GB mentioned above, they predominately impact one area of the field more than another.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

with every passing week it seems that Brighton fans become a little bit more precious.

Just look at where we are as a club these days!

I kinda get where some fans are coming from, because with the relative increases in achievements (survival, then pushing onto the top half, then Europe) brings more and more expectation. But at some point there is going to be a blip or a dip, because we aren't one of the top TOP clubs and will probably always be trying to punch above our weight, like a lot of the other clubs in that area of the table.

It's only natural to feel disappointment when your football club doesn't do as well as the previous season (even though we still might be last season's total) this season. Especially when certain fans think that the squad contains the £200m-worth of talent that was SPAFFED up the wall last summer. But there's a difference between feeling like that in private and either crying on a forum or booing at a game about it. The latter group might come across as precious but I guess "It is what it is"

 

[Greg Bobkin]

We will 100% be booed off if we lose on Saturday.

If, that is, there's anyone left in the stadium at the final whistle to BOOOOOOOO!

 

[JManGulls]

I’m a little late to the thread by the looks of it, but Fabian took a team that couldn’t get a win, for love nor money, and has kept us within breathing distance of Europe. All of this, with one of the youngest and most injury prone squads.

We have seen him learn and build experience as the season goes on, as he is now more versatile and has a “Plan B” for most situations.

I can’t even believe this is a thread, considering 2 weeks ago we genuinely thought we could get champions league. Since then, we kept a clean sheet against Nottingham Forest for 120 minutes, and lost 2 league games against teams we have always struggled to beat.

If you don’t back the team during the struggles, then don’t expect them to bounce back. Some people seem to almost want us to lose, to carry on this narrative.

TLDR: Fabian has done a better job that anyone else, that was available. Even a 6 point improvement next season, could get us champions league.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I kinda get where some fans are coming from, because with the relative increases in achievements (survival, then pushing onto the top half, then Europe) brings more and more expectation. But at some point there is going to be a blip or a dip, because we aren't one of the top TOP clubs and will probably always be trying to punch above our weight, like a lot of the other clubs in that area of the table.

It's only natural to feel disappointment when your football club doesn't do as well as the previous season (even though we still might be last season's total) this season. Especially when certain fans think that the squad contains the £200m-worth of talent that was SPAFFED up the wall last summer. But there's a difference between feeling like that in private and either crying on a forum or booing at a game about it. The latter group might come across as precious but I guess "It is what it is"

I think @Justice made a very good point. When you're playing in an athletics stadium and getting by with the likes of Dean Wilkins and Russell Slade no one has any expectations beyond a day out, a few beers and staying in the league. Even when you're in The Championship in a new stadium people understand how difficult it is to get out of that league, especially with parachute payments. But when you spend £200 million in one window, play the likes of Marseille, Ajax and Roma and finish regularly in or around the top ten then why not have heightened expectations? It's not the same club.

No, we're not a big six club rolling in money and with TV coverage to burn but we're very much in the group that are disrupting them along with Fulham, Brentford, Villa, Newcastle and Forest. Possibly Bournemouth too. Either little clubs getting by with a lot of savvy trading and coaches or former giants trying to spend their way to glory within (or sometimes without) FFP / PSR compliance. It has to be our aim to be consistently in this group and to push for Europe every season. And - guess what - that's the club's target too.

Fab's doing a great job of it, especially for an inexperienced coach BTW. But lose three big games in a row? Have Palace do the double over us? Lose 7-0? Anyone with a soul is going to have a little grizzle.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I think @Justice made a very good point. When you're playing in an athletics stadium and getting by with the likes of Dean Wilkins and Russell Slade no one has any expectations beyond a day out, a few beers and staying in the league. Even when you're in The Championship in a new stadium people understand how difficult it is to get out of that league, especially with parachute payments. But when you spend £200 million in one window, play the likes of Marseille, Ajax and Roma and finish regularly in or around the top ten then why not have heightened expectations? It's not the same club.

No, we're not a big six club rolling in money and with TV coverage to burn but we're very much in the group that are disrupting them along with Fulham, Brentford, Villa, Newcastle and Forest. Possibly Bournemouth too. Either little clubs getting by with a lot of savvy trading and coaches or former giants trying to spend their way to glory within (or sometimes without) FFP / PSR compliance. It has to be our aim to be consistently in this group and to push for Europe every season. And - guess what - that's the club's target too.

Fab's doing a great job of it, especially for an inexperienced coach BTW. But lose three big games in a row? Have Palace do the double over us? Lose 7-0? Anyone with a soul is going to have a little grizzle.

I agree with all of that (I think we're broadly saying the same thing). But we're often reminded that it's the hardest league in the world (as well as the best, appparently), where anyone can beat anyone else and it often throws up freak results. Yes, of course, people are going to be disappointed – again, that's natural, just like the heightened expectations you're referring to.

But, putting it all in perspective and looking at the season as a whole, is it really enough to be calling for the manager to be facked off and to write off the majority of the new players? Nah, not for me, Clive. Yes, there have been disappointing results and performances – and OF COURSE they are going to stick out more than the positives – but there have been some great highlights too. Coming back to beat City and Spuds (OK, maybe not the latter, because most clubs – even Leicester – can be those mugs), consecutive wins over Chelsea in a matter of days, the double of Manchester United, the emergence of Georginio and previously derided players proving fans wrong.

All that with a new (to this league) and young manager, a shed load of injuries and new young players being bedded in. If purely for my own mental health and outlook on life, I'm more than happy to focus on the positives and forget the bad shit and move on.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I agree with all of that (I think we're broadly saying the same thing). But we're often reminded that it's the hardest league in the world (as well as the best, appparently), where anyone can beat anyone else and it often throws up freak results. Yes, of course, people are going to be disappointed – again, that's natural, just like the heightened expectations you're referring to.

But, putting it all in perspective and looking at the season as a whole, is it really enough to be calling for the manager to be facked off and to write off the majority of the new players? Nah, not for me, Clive. Yes, there have been disappointing results and performances – and OF COURSE they are going to stick out more than the positives – but there have been some great highlights too. Coming back to beat City and Spuds (OK, maybe not the latter, because most clubs – even Leicester – can be those mugs), consecutive wins over Chelsea in a matter of days, the double of Manchester United, the emergence of Georginio and previously derided players proving fans wrong.

All that with a new (to this league) and young manager, a shed load of injuries and new young players being bedded in. If purely for my own mental health and outlook on life, I'm more than happy to focus on the positives and forget the bad shit and move on.

Yes, I think we're broadly aligned. I was dubious after the 7-0 because it was purely a coaching loss. The players, formation and tactics were horribly wrong. But he responded to it brilliantly and, while the last three results are vastly disappointing I'm not going to lose my shizzle with the coach.

There was a thread by @Hamilton on our signings that went largely ignored, which was a pity because it highlighted the different potential within those players. For me there were far more positives than negatives from the group that joined pre-season or in January but there are two glaring WTFs. Everyone will have a slightly different opinion though.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Yes, I think we're broadly aligned. I was dubious after the 7-0 because it was purely a coaching loss. The players, formation and tactics were horribly wrong. But he responded to it brilliantly and, while the last three results are vastly disappointing I'm not going to lose my shizzle with the coach.

There was a thread by @Hamilton on our signings that went largely ignored, which was a pity because it highlighted the different potential within those players. For me there were far more positives than negatives from the group that joined pre-season or in January but there are two glaring WTFs. Everyone will have a slightly different opinion though.

Cashin and ?

The typical model is for buying players is typically to get ones that are ready to go. But we know that TB/PB think differently, hence why we ended up with a lot of potential stars – unhelpfully written off by some fans as a waste of £200m – that will hopefully help to take the Albion to the next level. Everyone at the club is learning – RDZ even mentioned that when he was here – and Daniel Niedzkowski said on the BHA podcast that FH isn't afraid to try stuff, which is possibly where the setup against Forest came from. But, like you say, he bounced back from that and it will be one of a large number of lessons he would've learned this season.

Next season? Who knows, but I'm sure they'll be exactly the roller-coaster of emotions as this one

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I'm thinking 3 WTF's but yeh, no need to name names and as ever i'll be delighted if they do come good in the end

 

[Doug-ees-evil]

Having watched the amazing PSG/Villa CL game last night, our 0-3 loss doesn't look so bad now. Thought Villa were genuinely excellent, defensively especially.. which may seem an odd thing to say when they lost 1-3. But it took three goals of the most exceptional quality to defeat them and watching the full game, I think the majority of the Premier Leagues' top ten clubs would have gone down 4, 5 or 6 nil to PSG last night. Enrique really has built a wonderful team there now all the big names have moved on.

Back to the point, Villa are a very strong side with a deep, experienced + youthful, athletic squad, and with each passing day our recent home defeat against them bothers me less. We are trying to punch above our weight, but we are not in that weight category at all yet - and probably never will be. In Emery, they have one of Europe's best and most decorated coaches. Sometimes, you have just have sit back, take stock and think where we've come from and where we are now. As @jackalbion said, we are perhaps in our first true years of being an established mid-table top flight team. Only 4 years ago this was a pipe dream and it's kind of a weird thing to even say.. to be consistently mixing it with the historical West Hams and Everton's of this world.

So with the narrow Forest penalty lottery defeat and the Villa match filed appropriately as 'one of those.. move on', perhaps the Palace defeat was the most harmful and irritating of the three? A comfortable home win against Leicester will be the perfect tonic and everyone will mention the 'E'' word again. Lose or draw however and the doubters surface again. So Saturday's game nicely represents so much of this season really – expectation, hope, dread, disappointment, elation, relief.. round and round we go, up and down, in this classic transition season... exhausting really!

 

[Napper]

has he apologised to the fans yet ?