Europe: In or Out

[alfredmizen]

Ah, the polls closed now, but I would have (and will) vote IN. There's plenty I don't like about the EU, but I couldn't with a conscience vote against the environmental regulations produced by the EU that are much stronger and more extensive than anything our own governments come up with. The water framework directive, birds directive, common fisheries policy and crucially, the habitat directive, would not be replaced with anything so rigorous in our own parliament. Major policies on climate change, acid rain, renewable energy, water pollution, sustainable development and so on have been developed by the EU and they are the best in the world at protecting our natural environment. So for that reason, I'm IN

Which are all a total waste of time unless the rest of the world implements them as well.

 

[Albion my Albion]

In, but I'll be out next month.

 

[brighton fella]

Thats just the most ridiculous reply to a serious post. Science matters, and importantly, the process of science matters, and if you want to ignore it thats up to you but your ignorance won't change reality.

ignorance eh..the irony of your statement speaks volumes when it's folk like you who believe in anything that is put to you and do not question the source as genuine or not,
scientists who backs this kind of twaddle up are paid for by the state, independent scientists say the complete opposite.
where is this great heat wave they promised back in the early 90's..when they claimed britain would become like spain in temperature by 2010...in fact anything but that has happened.
of course HARP doesn't even exist never mind have influence over our jet stream.

 

[Soulman]

An ordinary day in the EU.
04/02/2016 – HAMM, Germany – Police search for thief
Police have released the identikit of a suspected thief who attacked a 37 year old woman last month. Pushing the woman against a wall and demanding women, he “felt her entire body” and then hit her in the face when he found she had nothing worth taking.

The suspect is described as being of a “wiry and slender figure”, having “curly short hair, similar to a small Afro”, and “thick lips, and a thicker nose”.

04/02/2016 – FREIBURG, Germany – Supermarket robbery
Two men of “dark complexion” robbed a supermarket with a gun on Wednesday, threatening a saleswoman and raiding the till for cash. Hundreds of Euros were taken by the two men, who were joined by a third accomplice who had waited outside as they fled. The men have not been identified.

04/02/2016 – LUDWIGHAFEN, Germany – Police enquiries after girl approached
Police are seeking a Turkish speaker described as having “short curly dark hair” and a “brown complexion” after he approached a 13 year old girl at a railway station and asked her to follow him, which prompted her to run away. He followed her into a shopping centre, repeating his demand, and then gave up following her, according to the police report.

04/02/2016 – STUTTGART, Germany – Police called to camp brawl
A major police operation was but into place when migrants at a government cap started to brawl on Monday. When officers arrived, they discovered there had been an internal dispute among the predominantly Iraqi inhabitants of the camp had violently disagreed over how to “deal” with a group of Syrian “newcomers” to the camp.

04/02/2016 – PARIS, France – Number of Islamists doubles
An official report leaked to the French media shows 8,250 people, including women and teenagers, were identified as suspected radical Islamists in France over the last year, more than doubling the previous figure from March 2015. Read more at Breitbart London.

04/02/2016 – MANNHEIM, Germany – Woman groped
Police are seeking a “North African appearance” man speaking “broken German” after he grabbed a woman in the early hours of Sunday. The 26 year old was touched on the “breasts, buttocks, and private parts”, and he later opened his trousers and “fumbled his member” in front of her, according to the police report.

04/02/2016 – BERLIN, Germany – Shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ while firing in the air
Police are seeking an unidentified man who shouted a blank-firing pistol in the air and fired it at least four times while shouting the Islamic war-cry “Allahu Akhbar” at the weekend before driving off. Shell casings have been recovered, but there has been no developments in tracking the man or his car.

04/02/2016 – STYRIA, Austria – Free pass for migrants, €25 for Austrians
Now the Schengen agreement has been suspended in most of Europe, appropriate travel papers are once again required to cross many borders. This is the case, at least for EU citizens, who are to be fined €25 on the border if they accidentally leave their I.D. cards at home. Migrants on the other hand are not expected to meet any such requirements and are waved through after having their finger prints taken, if they are intercepted by police at all, reports Der Kronen Zeitung.

04/02/2016 – STOCKHOLM, Sweden – Emergency services describe working in no-go zone
Several interviews with emergency service crews accompany a report on the most dangerous areas of Stockholm in today’s Aftonbladet. A fire officer states “They set cars on fire and when our crew arrives, people are subject to regular ambushes”. He said stones are regularly thrown, and fire hoses stolen.

A spokesman for the ambulance service in Sweden says he has very high staff turnover in areas where crews are threatened with violence or attacked, and some suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. “I’ve had paramedics who have been shot at, chased with knives or axes. We see a disturbing trend where colleagues who are subjected to violence don’t want to testify in court”.

“Now we go to gunshot wounds almost daily”.

04/02/2016 – HOVMANTORP, Sweden – ‘Pray To Allah Or Die’
What appears to be an Islamic State battle flag has been painted on the wall of a school along with the words’ Pray to Allah or Die’, reports Sweden’s state radio.

Police were called when the graffiti was discovered, but at present they have no suspects for the crime, admits a spokesman. The headmistress of the school told media the sign made her feel “uncomfortable”.

04/02/2016 – STEYR, Austria – Swingers club ‘evicted for migrants’
An Austrian sex club has been evicted from their Steyr premises, they claim, because the landlord wants to collect the generous government rent payouts for a refugee centre instead. The manager of the Aphrodite swingers’ club claims the property owner is hoping to collect upwards of €12,000 a month in migrant money and so turfed them out without notice, but the landlord told press the eviction was merely over unpaid rent, reports Der Kronen Zeitung.

This is not the first time the habit of swinging, or partner swapping has been under threat from the migrant crisis this week. Six Islamists were arrested in France after police unearthed plans to attack a number of such venues, and then flee to Syria. Read more.

04/02/2016 – VIENNA, Austria – ‘Goldrush’ of ISIS fighters coming to Europe
Two Islamist fighters who entered Europe on fake passports are being held in Austria as German constitutional chief Hans-Georg Maaßen said it is clear “that the Islamic State uses the flow of refugees to infiltrate [into Europe] fighters with a combat mission”. Mr. Maaßen said the Islamic State was sending fighters into Europe as a “show of force”, and the sheer number getting through resembled a “gold rush”.

04/02/2016 – ABBEVILLE, France – Arrest of migrants ends in shootout
A vehicle carrying ten Iranian and Iraqi migrants crashed on the A28 on Wednesday morning as the migrants fled from a border control barrage set up across the road, French news has reported. One officer was struck by the car, and was taken to hospital with a leg injury. His fellow officers gave chase and were forced to use their firearms when the migrants resisted arrest. All eleven occupants of the car, including the driver, were arrested. The car was registered in England.

www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/29/migrant-crisis-live-wire/


Wonderful, innit.

 

[brighton fella]

An ordinary day in the EU.
04/02/2016 – HAMM, Germany – Police search for thief
Police have released the identikit of a suspected thief who attacked a 37 year old woman last month. Pushing the woman against a wall and demanding women, he “felt her entire body” and then hit her in the face when he found she had nothing worth taking.

The suspect is described as being of a “wiry and slender figure”, having “curly short hair, similar to a small Afro”, and “thick lips, and a thicker nose”.

04/02/2016 – FREIBURG, Germany – Supermarket robbery
Two men of “dark complexion” robbed a supermarket with a gun on Wednesday, threatening a saleswoman and raiding the till for cash. Hundreds of Euros were taken by the two men, who were joined by a third accomplice who had waited outside as they fled. The men have not been identified.

04/02/2016 – LUDWIGHAFEN, Germany – Police enquiries after girl approached
Police are seeking a Turkish speaker described as having “short curly dark hair” and a “brown complexion” after he approached a 13 year old girl at a railway station and asked her to follow him, which prompted her to run away. He followed her into a shopping centre, repeating his demand, and then gave up following her, according to the police report.

04/02/2016 – STUTTGART, Germany – Police called to camp brawl
A major police operation was but into place when migrants at a government cap started to brawl on Monday. When officers arrived, they discovered there had been an internal dispute among the predominantly Iraqi inhabitants of the camp had violently disagreed over how to “deal” with a group of Syrian “newcomers” to the camp.

04/02/2016 – PARIS, France – Number of Islamists doubles
An official report leaked to the French media shows 8,250 people, including women and teenagers, were identified as suspected radical Islamists in France over the last year, more than doubling the previous figure from March 2015. Read more at Breitbart London.

04/02/2016 – MANNHEIM, Germany – Woman groped
Police are seeking a “North African appearance” man speaking “broken German” after he grabbed a woman in the early hours of Sunday. The 26 year old was touched on the “breasts, buttocks, and private parts”, and he later opened his trousers and “fumbled his member” in front of her, according to the police report.

04/02/2016 – BERLIN, Germany – Shouted ‘Allahu Akbar’ while firing in the air
Police are seeking an unidentified man who shouted a blank-firing pistol in the air and fired it at least four times while shouting the Islamic war-cry “Allahu Akhbar” at the weekend before driving off. Shell casings have been recovered, but there has been no developments in tracking the man or his car.

04/02/2016 – STYRIA, Austria – Free pass for migrants, €25 for Austrians
Now the Schengen agreement has been suspended in most of Europe, appropriate travel papers are once again required to cross many borders. This is the case, at least for EU citizens, who are to be fined €25 on the border if they accidentally leave their I.D. cards at home. Migrants on the other hand are not expected to meet any such requirements and are waved through after having their finger prints taken, if they are intercepted by police at all, reports Der Kronen Zeitung.

04/02/2016 – STOCKHOLM, Sweden – Emergency services describe working in no-go zone
Several interviews with emergency service crews accompany a report on the most dangerous areas of Stockholm in today’s Aftonbladet. A fire officer states “They set cars on fire and when our crew arrives, people are subject to regular ambushes”. He said stones are regularly thrown, and fire hoses stolen.

A spokesman for the ambulance service in Sweden says he has very high staff turnover in areas where crews are threatened with violence or attacked, and some suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. “I’ve had paramedics who have been shot at, chased with knives or axes. We see a disturbing trend where colleagues who are subjected to violence don’t want to testify in court”.

“Now we go to gunshot wounds almost daily”.

04/02/2016 – HOVMANTORP, Sweden – ‘Pray To Allah Or Die’
What appears to be an Islamic State battle flag has been painted on the wall of a school along with the words’ Pray to Allah or Die’, reports Sweden’s state radio.

Police were called when the graffiti was discovered, but at present they have no suspects for the crime, admits a spokesman. The headmistress of the school told media the sign made her feel “uncomfortable”.

04/02/2016 – STEYR, Austria – Swingers club ‘evicted for migrants’
An Austrian sex club has been evicted from their Steyr premises, they claim, because the landlord wants to collect the generous government rent payouts for a refugee centre instead. The manager of the Aphrodite swingers’ club claims the property owner is hoping to collect upwards of €12,000 a month in migrant money and so turfed them out without notice, but the landlord told press the eviction was merely over unpaid rent, reports Der Kronen Zeitung.

This is not the first time the habit of swinging, or partner swapping has been under threat from the migrant crisis this week. Six Islamists were arrested in France after police unearthed plans to attack a number of such venues, and then flee to Syria. Read more.

04/02/2016 – VIENNA, Austria – ‘Goldrush’ of ISIS fighters coming to Europe
Two Islamist fighters who entered Europe on fake passports are being held in Austria as German constitutional chief Hans-Georg Maaßen said it is clear “that the Islamic State uses the flow of refugees to infiltrate [into Europe] fighters with a combat mission”. Mr. Maaßen said the Islamic State was sending fighters into Europe as a “show of force”, and the sheer number getting through resembled a “gold rush”.

04/02/2016 – ABBEVILLE, France – Arrest of migrants ends in shootout
A vehicle carrying ten Iranian and Iraqi migrants crashed on the A28 on Wednesday morning as the migrants fled from a border control barrage set up across the road, French news has reported. One officer was struck by the car, and was taken to hospital with a leg injury. His fellow officers gave chase and were forced to use their firearms when the migrants resisted arrest. All eleven occupants of the car, including the driver, were arrested. The car was registered in England.

www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/29/migrant-crisis-live-wire/


Wonderful, innit.

the kind of europe i love living in.and it's called multiculturalism, anyway disagree's must be a racist. long may it continue..

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

ignorance eh..the irony of your statement speaks volumes when it's folk like you who believe in anything that is put to you and do not question the source as genuine or not,
scientists who backs this kind of twaddle up are paid for by the state, independent scientists say the complete opposite.
where is this great heat wave they promised back in the early 90's..when they claimed britain would become like spain in temperature by 2010...in fact anything but that has happened.
of course HARP doesn't even exist never mind have influence over our jet stream.

I don't really know how to debate with you. I'm an independent scientist not paid by the state and I say human-caused climate change is real. But you're clearly not going to believe that. The combined wisdom of mankind says global warming is real, but you will counter with, what exactly?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Which are all a total waste of time unless the rest of the world implements them as well.

Europe is a pretty big and important part of the world, and we have more influence than many realise. So not a waste of time at all.

 

[Solly March Sexy Legs]

Stay in and your children have no future.

 

[brighton fella]

I don't really know how to debate with you. I'm an independent scientist not paid by the state and I say human-caused climate change is real. But you're clearly not going to believe that. The combined wisdom of mankind says global warming is real, but you will counter with, what exactly?

so you say that you are independent.. what do you make of HARP or volcanic pollution come to that.. do both these not have anything to do with change ?

when was climate first ever monitored and recorded, do you have any evidence before climate was monitored to back up your theory ?.

since the very first talks of climate change everyone was being told that the antarctic was thawing, where is the evidence of this predicted major thaw today,. since 1996 temperatures have decreased ffs.

who may be credible to you is not credible to me when money is at stake. greed will be the destruction of this planet not some soppy made up excuse known today as climate change..

.

.

.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Europe is a pretty big and important part of the world, and we have more influence than many realise. So not a waste of time at all.

Bow to your superior knowledge in this area but from my laymans perspective it can seem like a waste of time.

China and numerous other countries populations want the same standard of living as we in the west enjoy. As they strive to achieve this their rates of consumption will have a far far far greater effect on the environment than Europe's limited reduction in emissions. By the way I'm all for limiting our impact on the environment, recycling, diversifying energy production etc It just seems like much of the green agenda is more about ideology or raising tax than supposedly having any real impact on, or significantly reducing, the man made aspect of global warming.

Isn't a bit like us standing at one end of a rapidly filling bath using a spoon to bail out water while both taps are still turned on?

On a not unrelated matter. What impact do you think net EU inward migration running into the hundreds of thousands year in year out fuelling rapid population growth will have on the UK environment and for sustainability?

 

[alfredmizen]

Europe is a pretty big and important part of the world, and we have more influence than many realise. So not a waste of time at all.

I used to work in The Carbon Emissions market, and believe me , Europes cap and trade regulations are a total and utter waste of fvcking time with what 3rd world countries such as China and India are pumping out .

 

[The Rivet]

Bearing in mind the Pegida/Legida protests across Europe you can see that it is getting ugly.

 

[brighton fella]

Bow to your superior knowledge in this area but from my laymans perspective it can seem like a waste of time.

China and numerous other countries populations want the same standard of living as we in the west enjoy. As they strive to achieve this their rates of consumption will have a far far far greater effect on the environment than Europe's limited reduction in emissions. By the way I'm all for limiting our impact on the environment, recycling, diversifying energy production etc It just seems like much of the green agenda is more about ideology or raising tax than supposedly having any real impact on, or significantly reducing, the man made aspect of global warming.

Isn't a bit like us standing at one end of a rapidly filling bath using a spoon to bail out water while both taps are still turned on?

On a not unrelated matter. What impact do you think net EU inward migration running into the hundreds of thousands year in year out fuelling rapid population growth will have on the UK environment and for sustainability?

whereas you are right to point out that Europe's contribution will have little or pretty much no affect at all i still maintain that the whole thing is nothing but a nonsensical charade anyway.
how the masses have swallowed this farcical is beyond me and to except the word of someone with some kind of importance attached to his name as credible rather than ask any questions is absolute ignorance in itself.

the man behind climate change/global warming was canadian socialist multimillionaire Maurice Strong who,was in the oil business ,allegations were put to this man over the oil for food scandal and ties to various secret organisations of which he denies all of them.. i though beg to differ.

 

[GT49er]

Isn't a bit like us standing at one end of a rapidly filling bath using a spoon to bail out water while both taps are still turned on?

In a word, yes

On a not unrelated matter. What impact do you think net EU inward migration running into the hundreds of thousands year in year out fuelling rapid population growth will have on the UK environment and for sustainability?

Probably a more serious problem for the UK, in the short and medium term at least, than global warming.

 

[BadFish]

I think the whole issue about Climate change has been confused now. Seems like a way to just get more money out of governments and people.

i think that the only way that governments can fathom dealing with climate change is to try and get more money out of people. This, i would wager is to do with their links to the Oil industry and other big businesses. It seems to me that the answer to climate change is more likely to be found in being more careful with our resources and using them wisely, coupled with some investment in more renewable energies so we can become more efficient at harnessing the free energy around us.

In short. Dealing with climate change should not be the expensive operation that it is being made into.

As for it not being a real and definate threat. I am going with the scientific community on this (as that is what they are there for) and taking it as real. No-one can be certain but for my mind it is better to treat is as real than to ignore it. This guy explains my thinking pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ

 

[BadFish]

I used to work in The Carbon Emissions market, and believe me , Europes cap and trade regulations are a total and utter waste of fvcking time with what 3rd world countries such as China and India are pumping out .

I don't see it as a waste of time at all, developed nations need to be leading the way with this stuff it is the only way we will get the developing nations to make changes.

China has already beginning to make changes http://www.c2es.org/international/key-country-policies/china.

A waste of time would be doing nothing at all and accepting our fate.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Bow to your superior knowledge in this area but from my laymans perspective it can seem like a waste of time.

China and numerous other countries populations want the same standard of living as we in the west enjoy. As they strive to achieve this their rates of consumption will have a far far far greater effect on the environment than Europe's limited reduction in emissions. By the way I'm all for limiting our impact on the environment, recycling, diversifying energy production etc It just seems like much of the green agenda is more about ideology or raising tax than supposedly having any real impact on, or significantly reducing, the man made aspect of global warming.

Isn't a bit like us standing at one end of a rapidly filling bath using a spoon to bail out water while both taps are still turned on?

On a not unrelated matter. What impact do you think net EU inward migration running into the hundreds of thousands year in year out fuelling rapid population growth will have on the UK environment and for sustainability?

Little is a waste of time, but I certainly share your frustrations. Obviously its not easy. China is not a great example for you as they are currently engaging on a massive clean-up of their industries; their power stations and their cities - they want to develop their economy but they also want to live in an environment with clean air, clean water - economic development tends to be followed by action on environmental concerns. Its the tiger economies of SE Asia that are a particular problem as far as unchecked emissions go.

Of course emissions are not just from burning fossil fuels; its agricultural development, esp. meat production (I'm not a veggie btw); forest clearance and loss of peatlands. 2015 saw a huge spike in emissions from peatland fires in Indonesia, when the numbers are run expect to see a spike in global temperatures next year, mirroring the last single-biggest jump in global temperatures 1997-98 when there were similar massive peatland fires. Its things like this where we do have a big influence in Europe as purchasers of products like palm oil.

Just some facts and figures: The EU is the largest economy in the world and accounts for just under 25% of the World's GDP; the EU is the world's largest trading block, the largest single trader of good and services with 16% of the world's imports and exports and the top trading partner for 80 countries. Fuels excluded, the EU imports more from developing countries than the USA, Canada, Japan and China put together. So yes, there is a huge amount of influence there.

What do I think of impact of EU-inward migration on the environment? Can't imagine it will be positive in the short-term, long-term its a less of an issue because of they incredibly low birth-rates right across the EU (If birth rates stay the same as today, and there is no net immigration, the population of the UK in 100 years time will be 30 million). Like I said in my original post, there is lots I don't like about the EU, but for the environment it has undoubtedly been good. Simply looking at home, leaving the EU will remove protections on lots of important sites in the UK putting them at the risk of development by this government. I know not everyone cares, but for me this is the single reason I will vote to stay in.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

so you say that you are independent.. what do you make of HARP or volcanic pollution come to that.. do both these not have anything to do with change ?

when was climate first ever monitored and recorded, do you have any evidence before climate was monitored to back up your theory ?.

since the very first talks of climate change everyone was being told that the antarctic was thawing, where is the evidence of this predicted major thaw today,. since 1996 temperatures have decreased ffs.

who may be credible to you is not credible to me when money is at stake. greed will be the destruction of this planet not some soppy made up excuse known today as climate change..


.

Hello again, you're confusing me a bit now. Are you saying that global warming is a hoax, or that it is real but caused by HAARP or volcanic pollution? You spent ages bashing scientists, especially state-funded ones, and then use a NASA-funded study on Antarctica as part of your evidence-base?

anyway, HAARP is a pretty open project (also with state-funded University partners), the power of HAARP is less than that of a lightning bolt of which there are a hundred a second world-wide. But if you want to believe the dramatic conspiracy theories and use that as your evidence for the cause of global warming, well thats up to you but please don't question the credibility of others

The West Antarctic ice shelf is thawing fast and glaciers are speeding up. In East Antarctica there is increased precipitation (because of global warming) and the increased snowfall there is balancing the loss elsewhere. Globally, sea-levels are rising and the volume of ice is shrinking.

I don't want to spend anymore time debating whether climate change is real, I would rather debate how to stop it. I will agree with you that current efforts are failing because of greed and that greed will be the destruction of this planet - or at least the part of it that is habitable to us.

 

[pastafarian]

Hello again, you're confusing me a bit now. Are you saying that global warming is a hoax, or that it is real but caused by HAARP or volcanic pollution? You spent ages bashing scientists, especially state-funded ones, and then use a NASA-funded study on Antarctica as part of your evidence-base?

anyway, HAARP is a pretty open project (also with state-funded University partners), the power of HAARP is less than that of a lightning bolt of which there are a hundred a second world-wide. But if you want to believe the dramatic conspiracy theories and use that as your evidence for the cause of global warming, well thats up to you but please don't question the credibility of others

The West Antarctic ice shelf is thawing fast and glaciers are speeding up. In East Antarctica there is increased precipitation (because of global warming) and the increased snowfall there is balancing the loss elsewhere. Globally, sea-levels are rising and the volume of ice is shrinking.

I don't want to spend anymore time debating whether climate change is real, I would rather debate how to stop it. I will agree with you that current efforts are failing because of greed and that greed will be the destruction of this planet - or at least the part of it that is habitable to us.

yes global warming was a hoax
climate change is different

 

[pastafarian]

Can you elaborate on why you're undecided?

can you elaborate if you think the EU needs reforming?And how?
I know ive asked you a number of times now but you have forgotten to reply everytime as of yet

or is it perfect?