Europe: In or Out

[GT49er]

Wait and see what Cameron brings home, hopefully that can convince you to vote in.

Cameron will come home with nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Like that massive rebate he negotiated..............that was scheduled to come anyway.

Like Heath (and many other politicians) before him, he will no doubt do his best to hoodwink the nation, selling us the benefits of staying in and trying to scare us into not voting out. He will doubtless be proved right about the benefits of staying in - for him personally, that is. I wonder if he likes yachts................

 

[5ways]

Then you didn't read his posts properly - he didn't compare the UK to the USA, he suggested we have far larger markets to target than the EU one such as the US one .... or even China which is already a very successful market for us.

And how do we target them? Do you want to represent 23% of global GDP in these negotiations or 3? If we sign trade agreements for the EU as a whole we have the full force of an economy seven times larger than the UK's negotiating the terms. If we stay in the EU British businesses will get better terms in these bigger markets.

 

[GT49er]

Anything he brings home won't be real - it will be smoke and mirrors

Like that 'surprise' bill the EU landed on us. Cameron - "We won't be paying it" meanwhile in the background it was balanced off against other charges and rebates putting us in exactly the same position we would have been if we had just paid it. If anyone believes anything Cameron brings back is true then they are an utter idiot.

Beat me to it!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Beat me to it!

And spookily similar.

 

[melias shoes]

In, if you want out we will go into meltdown but just us

No we won't.

 

[cjd]

I have voted undecided, and will wait until Mr Cameron tells us what he has gained from the EU in recent talks.

However, the fact that Herrtubthumper thinks we should stay in, sways me towards the "out" vote.

 

[Grombleton]

Can someone smarter than I am (not difficult) explain Cameron's aims for this agreement? It comes across to me as saying "we want to be part of things...but on our own terms" which comes across as wanting to have his cake and eat it, and refusing to take a stance one way or the other on staying/leaving the EU.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Can someone smarter than I am (not difficult) explain Cameron's aims for this agreement? It comes across to me as saying "we want to be part of things...but on our own terms" which comes across as wanting to have his cake and eat it, and refusing to take a stance one way or the other on staying/leaving the EU.

Obviously not smarter but I think Cameron's aims are ..

To get numerous minor changes that at best make minimal more likely no change to our status within the EU while presenting it as a hard fought groundbreaking big win for the UK and hope enough of the public are gullible enough to believe it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Surely we export more outside "the biggest market".

EU and non-EU exports are broadly 50/50.

 

[Murray 17]

It's fine that a lot of the academics and highly educated on here are arguing to remain in, but the average person on the street wants out. Your average tabloid reader, and there are plenty of them, does not want to stay in Europe - they see it in simple terms.

OUT!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

And here's an example of the In's attempting to corrupt someone's words to their favour - in this case Sir Michael Caine's :

Will Straw, executive director of Britain Stronger in Europe, said: "Like many people, Michael Caine said he hasn't yet decided which way he'll vote - and like our campaign, he thinks the EU needs reform."

When in fact the case was actually :

Pressed by interviewer Nick Robinson, he [ Sir Michael Caine ] said: "I feel certain we should come out."

So if an Executive Director of the In campaign can misrepresent a statement in such a way how are we to believe a word they say. Dirty tricks already in play.

 

[beorhthelm]

Can someone smarter than I am (not difficult) explain Cameron's aims for this agreement? It comes across to me as saying "we want to be part of things...but on our own terms" which comes across as wanting to have his cake and eat it, and refusing to take a stance one way or the other on staying/leaving the EU.

his aims are to appear to have gotten something from the EU, to say that he has managed to do things on our terms, so infering that being in the EU isnt so bad. so seems you got it, its a pretense, because he always wanted to stay in so hasnt asked for anything he couldnt get. and there's no point of cake unless you eat it.

 

[GT49er]

Obviously not smarter but I think Cameron's aims are ..

To get numerous minor changes that at best make minimal more likely no change to our status within the EU while presenting it as a hard fought groundbreaking big win for the UK and hope enough of the public are gullible enough to believe it.

Spot on! Unfortunately it is also an unerringly accurate summary of what will happen.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

his aims are to appear to have gotten something from the EU, to say that he has managed to do things on our terms, so infering that being in the EU isnt so bad. so seems you got it, its a pretense, because he always wanted to stay in so hasnt asked for anything he couldnt get. and there's no point of cake unless you eat it.

And of course he managed to gobble up many UKIP votes by promising a referendum if the Tories were elected ....... he wasn't scared of UKIP, absolutely not, no sirree.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm astonished that so many vote IN lol
Unless you believe we'll have a huge crash in jobs and believe the banker shite then you've been fooled.
I presume these are happy to have 300/400,000 migrants flocking in every single year and it could easily get far far worse and I'm sure it will.
We're nothing but a cash cow for the EU and it's as corrupt as you'll get
You can kiss by to our sovereignty and a lot lot more if people vote in...Forget the monetary side and focus on our country that is close to being handed over to the EU to fund the poorer countries and to drain our recourses.
Time to focus on bigger trade deals elsewhere even though Europe will come to us on their knees for business as always.

Those who vote in will make the biggest mistake in their lifetime and will look back in 10 years or so and say why did I do that.

they wouldn't see it that way because they're only protecting their own interests in the long term , **** you I'm alright jack types
regards
DR

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Spot on! Unfortunately it is also an unerringly accurate summary of what will happen.

He will do enough to persuade a majority of the undecided which will lead to a win for the stay in campaign by 5-10% margin.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

We were hood winked in under the common agricultural policey as set out by Ted heath and off he went sailing into the sun set
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

He will do enough to persuade a majority of the undecided which will lead to a win for the stay in campaign by 5-10% margin.

We wont have defeatist attitude like that thank you
regards
DR

 

[JC Footy Genius]

We wont have defeatist attitude like that thank you
regards
DR

Sorry DR #keepthefaith

 

[Grombleton]

they wouldn't see it that way because they're only protecting their own interests in the long term , **** you I'm alright jack types
regards
DR

Isn't personal opinion based essentially on ones long term interests? I think the concept of altruism was disproved, anyway but i could be wrong.