err......500 pages?

[drew]

how much sway does a club handbook hold? we have a company handbook that states something like "this is a guide and if anything within contradicts your contract then your contract is the legally binding document"

The contract is the legal document. Having said that, when I worked for a broker in the city, the actual contract was only a couple of pages long but linked into the handbook which provided details relating to leave, grievances, sick pay and the like. However, in this scenario you have to be wary because some companies will change the wording or clauses in the handbook and not appreciate that is in effect a change to the terms and conditions of your employment which you may or many not be in agreement to.

With regard to football, it is no different under the eyes of the law. Contracts will be more complex because people like Poyet will want control of image rights, other earnings such as punditry etc etc. 500 pages would be nothing. Remember, any allegation in the main body of the report will refer to evidence which will have to be included, whether that be correspondence, emails, statements from other individuals etc etc.


So, to all those that keep babbling on about 500 pages of allegations, can you grasp the concept now?

 

[glasfryn]

It's not YOUR club. Like it or not its a business that employs people. Those people want and need contracts to be secure in their jobs. Those contracts need clauses to ensure that both sides are protected should the other side want out before the end date.

Grow up for f**ks sake. This isn't the gang you created in the park with your mates when you were 7. This is a multi-million pound business in a multi-billion pound industry.

it won't be a multi-million pound business if the club continues in this vein
I asked for some transparency right at the start of this mess and it seems to me that all these things that Gus has supposed to have done that they do not like are beginning to melt away daily it also looks like this is all about money and in my contention it might have been cheaper to say and be honest with Gus and say look mate we just don't like you and what you do and pay him off
just how much is this going to cost the club in hard cash and also in the dribbling away of support ask the management at Blackburn.
Oh and it is my home town/city club they are ****ing up

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

how much sway does a club handbook hold? we have a company handbook that states something like "this is a guide and if anything within contradicts your contract then your contract is the legally binding document"

I agree that the contract of employment is the primary reference regarding the employee's conditions, specific duties and responsibilities. It may also cross refer to more detailed policies and procedures contained in other corporate documents such a 'handbook' or a suite of 'operating policies and procedures'. In my experience handbooks often include a 'code of conduct', expectations that employees will act in support of the companies objectives, not bring the company into disrepute etc ete, plus grievance and disciplinary procedures, health safety and welfare and other helpful stuff that is not practical to include within a contract of employment. In an organisation like The Albion it may also include areas such as 'dealing with the media' etc.

The 'code of conduct' found in a handbook may not be riveting every day reading for individual employees but can be key to disciplinary investigations. However I would expect a football manager to be aware of the existence of a Club's code of conduct and what the expectations are of employees. He/she may well refer to it in dealings with players who are experiencing issues eg when a player is fined 2 weeks wages for some indiscretion, whether footie related or not. The manager should also appreciate that they are subject to the code too. I would expect such codes of conduct to be broadly approved by the PFA and LMA. Of course the culture in footie management has traditionally trodden all over normal employment practices and turned a blind eye to such codes but there is a risk to that approach.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

The contract is the legal document. Having said that, when I worked for a broker in the city, the actual contract was only a couple of pages long but linked into the handbook which provided details relating to leave, grievances, sick pay and the like. However, in this scenario you have to be wary because some companies will change the wording or clauses in the handbook and not appreciate that is in effect a change to the terms and conditions of your employment which you may or many not be in agreement to.

With regard to football, it is no different under the eyes of the law. Contracts will be more complex because people like Poyet will want control of image rights, other earnings such as punditry etc etc. 500 pages would be nothing. Remember, any allegation in the main body of the report will refer to evidence which will have to be included, whether that be correspondence, emails, statements from other individuals etc etc.


So, to all those that keep babbling on about 500 pages of allegations, can you grasp the concept now?

My contract is about 10-15 pages long and it doesn't really say anything and its generic for everyone more or less

 

[Husty]

But look where we came from and look where we are now.

 

[Bold Seagull]

They're not alone . . .

 

[father_and_son]

[/B][/U]it won't be a multi-million pound business if the club continues in this vein
I asked for some transparency right at the start of this mess and it seems to me that all these things that Gus has supposed to have done that they do not like are beginning to melt away daily it also looks like this is all about money and in my contention it might have been cheaper to say and be honest with Gus and say look mate we just don't like you and what you do and pay him off
just how much is this going to cost the club in hard cash and also in the dribbling away of support ask the management at Blackburn.
Oh and it is my home town/city club they are ****ing up

So you honestly believe that TB is acting (maybe through PB) out of spite without thinking through the consequences. He will have had a executive team and a number of lawyers looking into this and done a full cost/benefit analysis of both routes.
The board has decided that it is better in the long run to fight with Gus over this because his lawyers have advised them of the potential costs either way and they have made a business decision. It is possible that it does cost more this way but they will have balanced both the cost and the probability.

This maybe yours and my home city, but we are not paid by Brighton and Hove Albion to either assess or make decisions over £2.5million [of what is essentially Tony's money]. The board do and their decision is to challenge Gus.


If we had some spoilt, rich russian/far eastern/middle eastern playboy in control I would suspect you have a point, but TB is a shrewd business man and doesn't have a bottomless pit of money so he needs to spend it wisely. And he has determined that this was the cheapest option.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

So you honest believe that TB is acting (maybe through PB) out of spite without thinking through the consequences. He will have had a executive team and a number of lawyers looking into this and done a full cost/benefit analysis of both routes.
The board has decided that it is better in the long run to fight with Gus over this because he lawyers have advised them of the potential costs either way and they have made a business decision. It is possible that it does cost more this way but they will have balanced both the cost and the probability.

This maybe yours and my home city, but we are not paid by Brighton and Hove Albion to either assess or make decisions over £2.5million [of what is essentially Tony's money]. The board do and their decision is to challenge Gus.


If we had some spoilt, rich russian/far eastern/middle eastern playboy in control I would suspect you have a point, but TB is a shrewd business man and doesn't have a bottomless pit of money so he needs to spend it wisely. And he has determined that this was the cheapest option.

i wonder if legal costs are covered by FFP or whether there is some sort of loophole there in case clubs get embrolied in a difficult situation (not unlike this one). you can control money you spend on wages, players etc but if a legal case gets big the costs could escalate quite quickly

 

[glasfryn]

So you honestly believe that TB is acting (maybe through PB) out of spite without thinking through the consequences. He will have had a executive team and a number of lawyers looking into this and done a full cost/benefit analysis of both routes.
The board has decided that it is better in the long run to fight with Gus over this because his lawyers have advised them of the potential costs either way and they have made a business decision. It is possible that it does cost more this way but they will have balanced both the cost and the probability.

This maybe yours and my home city, but we are not paid by Brighton and Hove Albion to either assess or make decisions over £2.5million [of what is essentially Tony's money]. The board do and their decision is to challenge Gus.


If we had some spoilt, rich russian/far eastern/middle eastern playboy in control I would suspect you have a point, but TB is a shrewd business man and doesn't have a bottomless pit of money so he needs to spend it wisely. And he has determined that this was the cheapest option.

it does look to me thought the consequences have not been thought through I doubt they even gave a thought to what the fans/customers think about this mess and for that matter the rest of those in league football when this all broke the whole world reported the poogate matter and this is even worse.
shrewd businessman he might be but I bet when he goes to bed at night he thinks to himself what the hell of a mess and why did I employ either Poyet or Barber
One of them has to go and I know where my money would be, that is not to say that is what I would want

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

how much sway does a club handbook hold? we have a company handbook that states something like "this is a guide and if anything within contradicts your contract then your contract is the legally binding document"

If you have a company handbook and you flagrantly disregard what is in it, you could expect to be taken to the cleaners.

 

[kevtherev]

That's a lot of pages of nothing, if you believe Poyet hasn't done anything wrong.

 

[father_and_son]

it does look to me thought the consequences have not been thought through I doubt they even gave a thought to what the fans/customers think about this mess and for that matter the rest of those in league football when this all broke the whole world reported the poogate matter and this is even worse.
shrewd businessman he might be but I bet when he goes to bed at night he thinks to himself what the hell of a mess and why did I employ either Poyet or Barber
One of them has to go and I know where my money would be, that is not to say that is what I would want

Fans... No, why would they... we are by definition fanatical and will support the club not matter what they do (provided they don't move it to Milton Keynes - that tends to p*ss people off) - *smallest hint of sarcasm - but serious point*.
Rest of the league... I'm sure we are being watched very closely to see if we will set the precedent for getting rid of a manager in the new FFP world and this isn't just Gus's job in the balance, but will impact a number of managers over the coming season(s).
The merry-go-round of managers and associated pay-offs and compensation payments isn't sustainable under FFP and needs to stop.

 

[el punal]

Believe it or not that's not excessive. I recently took my previous employers to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal (which I won by the way ).

The amount of paper work involved is enormous, what with witness statements, terms and conditions, warning letters, minutes from meetings, medical records etc. etc.

So in order to get a fair judgement, all this paper work, which is evidence, has to be gone over by the legal teams with a fine toothcomb.

Imagine then, the scenario between the club and Gus and all that it involves (which of course we do not know about) and I would not be surprised if it was a library of files.