England vs S Africa test series: The Inquest

[Was not Was]

Monty's figures to date would - over the course of a career - make him one of the leading wicket takers ever.

I think it's more a case of finding how to keep him motivated and pushing himself throughout his England career. I don't know how to do this, but that's surely better than going for the young gun every three years, then ditching him when he gets too comfortable.

 

[blockhseagull]

if we're going to play a 5-man bowling attack then Prior MUST be the keeper IMO. There isn't much pressure on the batsman, though Shah must be wondering what he has to do... he's a better bet that Bopara.

For the first game in India I would play this XI - bearing in mind 2 spinners need to be taken:

Strauss
Cook
Bell
KP
Collingwood
Prior
Flintoff
Rashid
Broad
Sidebottom
Monty

I would also take Harmison, Shah, Jones & Ambrose

So drop our leading wickettaker from the summer altogether ?

 

[Uncle Buck]

It's interesting that in England people say that, at 20, Rashid isn't ready to make the step up but if he were on the sub-continent if he'd hadn't been picked by now he'd have probably missed the boat for his career. India in particular have a history of giving spinners their debut whilst they're still in their teens.

We know that the best sides have a reliable contributions from the 7 and 8 positions. Gilchrist and Warne, Boucher and Pollock etc. In this post-Alec Stewart era we've had A.N.Other and Ashley Giles.

For me I've seen enough to suggest a 20-year old who averages 31 with the bat in First Class cricket with a century and 10 50s to his name and who's wickets have cost only 4 more runs apiece than Monty should be given a chance pretty soon.

If Broad doesn't work out we then have that No. 8 problem. If we drop Ambrose then whoever comes in will have that huge pressure on them to score. Someone like Rashid could chip in with vital runs at number 8, and it is surely time the England coaches started to give him the best coaching before he gets into bad habits.

At present I am not sure there is the need to pick him. Monty is taking wickets, as said on this thread at the rate he is taking them he will be Englands leading wicket taker.

Also the notion that you need 2 spinners on the sub continent, well there is some truth in that, but in the last few tours we have gone with Monty and then using Pietersen to support him. Would think that is what they will do again.

The bigger issue with the bowling attack is that Broad starts to pull his weight.

 

[keaton]

I really don't see any reason to drop Monty.
Rashid looks a good prospect but more of a limited overs bowler, and i like to see both him and Swann in the ODI and taken to India.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

So drop our leading wickettaker from the summer altogether ?

Oops... forgot about Anderson. Yes, I would take him but rate Sidebottom a better swing bowler. In a balanced attack one swinger is enough

 

[Uncle Buck]

Oops... forgot about Anderson. Yes, I would take him but rate Sidebottom a better swing bowler. In a balanced attack one swinger is enough

I would say at present Anderson is the better option. He has more pace than Sidebottom and Gibson seems to have found a decent balance with his action. Also the fact is he is youngish, so there is more to come from Anderson.

Sidebottom, I think, will be slowly edge out of the side between now and the Ashes. If we are going to go with a 5 man attack next summer, I expect it will be Flintoff, Harmison, Monty, Broad (although his bowling is not there yet, but he can bat), so that means one of Anderson, Jones and Sidebottom. At present it would be Anderson.

Nice to have a bit of competition there.

 

[Was not Was]

What about having more of a 'squad rotation' approach? When Broad was left out as he was 'tired', it was seen as him being dropped.

Surely it makes sense to have a squad of bowlers who aren't all disappointed to not play every game.

 

[keaton]

Simon Jones injured for the lions match

 

[Brovion]

Interesting points on Panesar who MUST get some variety to become a top-class spinner. But would you really swap him for someone like Harris who's a good fielder, an awkward, stubborn batsman - but who can't actually SPIN a ball?

I agree that no one's position is impregnable, but if you're going to drop Panesar it must be for somebody as good. Trading Panesar's match-winning ability for the sake of stopping a couple of boundaries and a few lower-order runs would be a negative step IMO, especially as has been pointed out we struggled to bowl South Africa out.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Now that the home test series is over the emphasis will shift to the winter and preparation for the Ashes. We need to have competition in ALL areas of the side, so we need to identify a final 16 and stick with them.

This is where the skill of man-management comes into play. How do you handle someone like Sidebottom, who will probably be dropped for Harmison despite having exceptional stats in his first 2 years of test cricket?

In addition, how do you handle Monty? If think he's had any easy ride because he originally looked the best spinner England had had since Underwood and so nobody has criticised him, but I think he is stagnating and had an average series with the ball. Graeme Smith could bat against him all day if he had to.

To me he needs to go up a gear if he is to become a matchwinner. Warne and Murali are clearly on another planet but Monty has a long way to go before his contribution to the side matches that of a Vettori, Kumble, Harbhajan Singh, MacGill or Saqlain. If we are to win the Ashes he HAS to do better.

 

[bellsize seagull]

it's not all bad, but just watching the SA yesterday they did not ever give up on winning that game and some of the fielding and positional changes from Smith outlined that we have lost to a good side this summer, apart from first few days at Lords thay have punished anything in the following 8 days in the test matches.
With reference to the team not much needs changing, Prior has kept really well this year for Sussex and is a fine player to have bat at 7 he gets alot more forward that Ambrose at test level.
Monty needs to vary the pace of his bowling and play for more mistakes by giving the ball more air, everyone yesterday was abusing Harris and his style but the fact that for a guy who does not spin the ball that much he takes wickets by getting players to get frustrated and then get themselves out ie Pietersen yesterday. I think the India tour is vital to get us working as a team under KP. The South Africans on the other hand will be the number 1 side in the world after the 2 mini series against the Aussies, i believe they will beat them on their own turf. This woule be a nice blow before the Ashes...

 

[sten_super]

Cricinfo - Consistently inconsistent

cricinfo's England ratings for the series are worth a look; they are actually quite insightful as well, unlike Gooch's effort for the Beeb. They also contain an absolutely brilliant picture...

 

[sten_super]

With reference to the team not much needs changing, Prior has kept really well this year for Sussex and is a fine player to have bat at 7 he gets alot more forward that Ambrose at test level.

Monty needs to vary the pace of his bowling and play for more mistakes by giving the ball more air, everyone yesterday was abusing Harris and his style but the fact that for a guy who does not spin the ball that much he takes wickets by getting players to get frustrated and then get themselves out ie Pietersen yesterday.

Prior will have to bat at 6 if he comes into the side. Flintoff can't bat at 6, he just doesn't have it in him at the moment.

I think you've got to be fair to Monty... he took 13 wickets in series at 31, whereas Harris took 8 at 43. He's significantly better than Harris; that's not saying much though, Harris was gash. He definitely needs more variation, and an arm ball would be nice!

 

[Questions]

Cricinfo - Consistently inconsistent

cricinfo's England ratings for the series are worth a look; they are actually quite insightful as well, unlike Gooch's effort for the Beeb. They also contain an absolutely brilliant picture...

Ok they didn`t always bat that well but there is no need for that sort of critisism on the high level advertising behind the batsman.

I think we lost to a very good side in S.A. and await their series with the Aussies to gauge just how improved they are.