England v Ukraine. Thoughts / predictions / bets

[yxee]

Three months ago we were minutes away from beating Brazil in the Maracana, earning a creditable draw against the favourites for the World Cup. That Brazil team went on to rip Spain apart, a team we beat the last time we played them courtesy of a Lampard goal.

I don't pretend that we're one of the top four, but in terms of attacking threat I think we're getting better with the emergence of Sturridge and Welbeck, we're damn hard to beat and have dangerous players.

Hard to beat is a good quality and I agree, the best example in recent times is our 0-0 with Italy in the euros. It's just a shame that there is so little to complement that up front. Sturridge looks like the first good prospect of a striker for a long time, but after all these years my cynicism tells me he'll be yet another player that's better for Liverpool than England.

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

Most of the elite international teams in Europe (the group that actually reach semi final/finals and win stuff) would come away from Kiev with a goalless draw and be happy.

Some folk on here think it should be a banker away win.

There was an away win tonight.

Reality 0 Delusion 1

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Tonight reminded me why I am gradually losing interest in football.

There wasn't a great deal of gamesmanship, but I think there is far too much play acting in the game.

So much of the course of a game can change from it being stopped.

Players are getting/have got so very good at feigning a foul.

That was the first entire match I have watched this season.

 

[Baron Pepperpot]

Tonight reminded me why I am gradually losing interest in football.

There wasn't a great deal of gamesmanship, but I think there is far too much play acting in the game.

So much of the course of a game can change from it being stopped.

Players are getting/have got so very good at feigning a foul.

That was the first entire match I have watched this season.

Seem to remember you like rugby though. You will have higher standards !

 

[HalifaxSeagull]

well played. dont forget to charge your phone though

It took me ages to work out what you meant - I have just started to charge my phone and it was freaking me out that you knew... Then I twigged it was a screen shot.

 

[Jbanged]

Utter boredom. Draw is good but an incredibly boring game to watch

 

[pasty]

Crap game. Good point. Qualification still in our own hands. That'll do I guess.

 

[Bwian]

disappointed that the players were consistantly unable to pass accurately to feet and repeatedly made poor choices too often involving hoisting long passes that simply invited the opposition back onto the attack.

Good result and nothing else really matters but too often we were made to look very poor.

Easily done because the England team IS very poor and will continue to be so all the while Murdoch's money is allowed to control English football.

 

[W.C.]

Just stop giving the ball away England

It's this. This ONE thing, that shouldn't be THAT hard for a group of professional players playing in one of the best leagues in the world to do. Should it?

It says everything about coaching in Britain. And still no one tries to get to grips with it and sort it out.

 

[W.C.]

Hard to beat is a good quality and I agree, the best example in recent times is our 0-0 with Italy in the euros. It's just a shame that there is so little to complement that up front. Sturridge looks like the first good prospect of a striker for a long time, but after all these years my cynicism tells me he'll be yet another player that's better for Liverpool than England.

You're probably right. Unfortunately most players who pull on an England shirt seem to forget their club form.

 

[Mr H]

Extract from a good article by Glenn Moore in today's Independent:

"England rarely looked like losing tonight, but they rarely looked like winning either. Creatively they were dire, ball retention was of the level of Sunday morning parks football. The cry on Twitter was for Michael Carrick, probably the best rotator of possession in England, but it should be remembered he was part of the midfield collapse to Montenegro in Podgorica.

Not that this is anything new. It is nearly 20 years since Terry Venables held court in the old Red Bar at Wembley and explained how he was trying to drill into his players the need to retain possession. But Venables, like Roy Hodgson, and everyone from Glenn Hoddle to Fabio Capello in between, can only play with the hand they are dealt. Decades of poor coaching theory and practice, and a cultural aversion to patient football, have left England bereft of players who are comfortable on the ball – the basic requirement to succeed in international football."

 

[Simster]

Three months ago we were minutes away from beating Brazil in the Maracana, earning a creditable draw against the favourites for the World Cup. That Brazil team went on to rip Spain apart, a team we beat the last time we played them courtesy of a Lampard goal.

I don't pretend that we're one of the top four, but in terms of attacking threat I think we're getting better with the emergence of Sturridge and Welbeck, we're damn hard to beat and have dangerous players.

But there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

In the end, I just note that England look excellent against pony teams like Moldova. They keep the ball, and they score as many goals as they want. However, Ukraine away was always going to be much tougher and sadly the predictable situation is that England can't string more than 3 passes together or keep the ball longer than 15 seconds against any of the world's top 15 or so teams. In fact, Ukraine are nowhere that, but the same applied last night.

So in a nutshell, 0-0 is a good result, a workmanlike performance with depressingly little creativity. But lets not pretend we are anywhere near the top 15 teams because we're not.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Most of the elite international teams in Europe (the group that actually reach semi final/finals and win stuff) would come away from Kiev with a goalless draw and be happy.

I don't think Spain, Germany, Italy or Holland would come away from Kiev with anything less than a win and if they did they'd be disappointed.

However, in context, a point is a good result and the group is in our own hands. The issue is the manner in which it was achieved. I cannot remember a poorer international football match. As Linekar said on twitter there was a lot of one touch stuff. England had a touch, then Ukraine had a touch, then England had a touch. If we play like that against Poland and Montenegro we will get two more draws and either go out or in to the lottery of the playoffs.

 

[Surf's Up]

And once again the debate returns to the need to overhaul British football from the roots up. France, Germany and Spain have all done it, can we, will it happen or are we too deeply entrenched? I fear we are, one flashy national training centre is merely playing lip service to the idea and will mean nothing unless a massive infrastructure investment is also made in the quality of coaching and the facilities for kids across the country with a recognition that the lead time before a different type of player begins to emerge is at least 5 - 8 years. In these days of instant gratification I can't see that happening because it will mean that things will get worse before they get better.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

I will always support England and not use poor performances to stop supporting them like some on here, makes me wonder what sort of loyalty people offer the Albion, but my god that was dire last night.

The number of decent English players coming through will always be limited until Sky **** off.

 

[Mellotron]

But lets not pretend we are anywhere near the top 15 teams because we're not.

You genuinely don't think we're "anywhere near" the likes of Greece, Switzerland, or Bosnia? So, if we played those 3 teams, we'd comfortably lose? Riiight.

 

[Simster]

You genuinely don't think we're "anywhere near" the likes of Greece, Switzerland, or Bosnia? So, if we played those 3 teams, we'd comfortably lose? Riiight.

I don't mean the top 15 according to the official rankings. I mean the actual top 15 in the world. And no, I don't.

Even in this qualifier group, we drew at home to Ukraine thanks to an 87th minute penalty and how we escaped from Montenegro (population: 1m) with a draw, I don't know. We were VERY lucky.

 

[SK1NT]

The last decade or more has been painful to watch England. I do sometimes watch and think how the hell can they not control that, how can they not pull off that basic pass. It is just hoof it up there to the big man and even their hoofs barely got to their target.

I don't know why the majority of England players play so crap for country but are decent for club... It has to be that the foreign players are the exciting play makers and the English players look better than they are playing around them.

The skill level to the rest of Europe is just not there and in the past has been the desire and passion that made England compete with the top countries. Now we don't even have that. Just super rich, passionless ****s.