[Football] England squad announcement - Lewis Dunk RECALLED!

[Badger Boy]

I think his time should have been up after the World Cup, but there is a shortage of appropriate candidates to replace him. I think he is tactically inept and his squad selection is pretty poor, there is no justification for JWP not being in the squad at all. None. And there is no argument in favour of Maguire or Phillips being included. I'm all for trying to maintain consistency in selections but what's the argument for picking players who are not in the picture for their clubs? Maguire played at Arsenal out of absolute, dire necessity. They lost the game.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

I’m not saying Walker shouldn’t be playing - he is the best right back we have. My point is that England managers should have more of a professional relationship with their players. Walker’s comment inferred that they are friends away from the squad. That is unhealthy as he may be more likely to play his mates, like Maguire perhaps?

To be strictly accurate, he may have implied it, but you inferred it.

 

[Javeaseagull]

I really wish people would stop using the line about Southgate saying he would only play form players. He has since clearly changed his mind on this as a strategt and said so many times. People are allowed to change their minds. If you can't adapt and evolve then you won't be successful. I have a lot of issues with Southgate as Manager, but trying to pull him up on something he said years ago and has since explained he no longer believes is completely ridiculous.

Of course he is allowed to change his mind but, come on, picking Mcguire who hasn’t played a match all season. He was even behind Luke Shaw for pity’s sake! Loyalty has its place but dear me, that’s ripping the arse out of it.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's time England's football team adopted the Bazball mentality.

The cricketers realised that our test team top order batsmen were impatient and shit at blocking, and we spent a decade having to recover from 50-3s, so they allowed the whole team to play their shots with a free rein. The effect on the side has been extraordinary, and it has re-energised and redefined test cricket.

I'd love to see a team of Pickford - TAA - Dunk - Colwill - Chilwell - Rice - Bellingham - Foden - Grealish - Kane - Saka with an instruction to play out from the back quickly, don't give a shit if you go 1-0 down, and back yourselves to outscore the opposition over 90 mins.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

As ever, it appears you have to take a stance and either someone is brilliant or rubbish.

He's a manager of two halves. He did a BRILLIANT job of turning the ship round from the disaster that was 2016. He restored a sense of pride again in watching England. Completely re-instated the relationship between the players and the media and brought in exciting young players and, however you want to spin it, we performed better than usual in tournaments.

BUT

he's probably reached his plateau. Personally I believe he needs to be replaced (I'd prefer before the tournament but it won't happen) but not in any sort of angry way. It's very much Chris Hughton for me. "Well done for keeping us up. Thanks for everything you did to get us here, but now we are moving on with the good foundations you have laid."

To even suggest he's done a poor job is madness.

 

[Mellotron]

It's time England's football team adopted the Bazball mentality.

The cricketers realised that our test team top order batsmen were impatient and shit at blocking, and we spent a decade having to recover from 50-3s, so they allowed the whole team to play their shots with a free rein. The effect on the side has been extraordinary, and it has re-energised and redefined test cricket.

I'd love to see a team of Pickford - TAA - Dunk - Colwill - Chilwell - Rice - Bellingham - Foden - Grealish - Kane - Saka with an instruction to play out from the back quickly, don't give a shit if you go 1-0 down, and back yourselves to outscore the opposition over 90 mins.

I think there is potentially something to this.

If you know your defence is a bit shit, don't set up to be a defensive team.

The De Zerbi way - we will simply score more than you.

 

[Seagull27]

As ever, it appears you have to take a stance and either someone is brilliant or rubbish.

He's a manager of two halves. He did a BRILLIANT job of turning the ship round from the disaster that was 2016. He restored a sense of pride again in watching England. Completely re-instated the relationship between the players and the media and brought in exciting young players.

BUT

he's probably reached his plateau. Personally I believe he needs to be replaced (I'd prefer before the tournament but it won't happen) but not in any sort of angry way. It's very much Chris Hughton for me. "Well done for keeping us up. Thanks for everything you did to get us here, but now we are moving on with the good foundations you have laid."

To even suggest he's done a poor job is madness.

Completely agree - some people saying he only ever wins the games we're expected to win, and struggle against the good sides. Fair point, but also forgetting that for many years we were getting knocked out by the likes of Iceland, Costa Rica, or drawing with Algeria and USA in group stages. Or not qualifying.

The squads we had from 2000-2010 were, on paper, as good as our current squad, but the performances were often a shambles.

Southgate has managed to ground the players, make them into a team and harbour a positive environment in the squad. In itself, that's something many of his predecessors failed to do. He's made me, and many others, excited about watching England again.

BUT he isn't tactically strong enough to go to the next level, and is starting to be too loyal to some players at the expense of emerging talent. Would like to see him replaced, but not without thanks and good memories.

 

[Mellotron]

As ever, it appears you have to take a stance and either someone is brilliant or rubbish.

He's a manager of two halves. He did a BRILLIANT job of turning the ship round from the disaster that was 2016. He restored a sense of pride again in watching England. Completely re-instated the relationship between the players and the media and brought in exciting young players and, however you want to spin it, we performed better than usual in tournaments.

BUT

he's probably reached his plateau. Personally I believe he needs to be replaced (I'd prefer before the tournament but it won't happen) but not in any sort of angry way. It's very much Chris Hughton for me. "Well done for keeping us up. Thanks for everything you did to get us here, but now we are moving on with the good foundations you have laid."

To even suggest he's done a poor job is madness.

Absolutely this.

Well done and thank you, now we're going to move on but still with some good foundations in place provided by GS.

 

[Farehamseagull]

As ever, it appears you have to take a stance and either someone is brilliant or rubbish.

He's a manager of two halves. He did a BRILLIANT job of turning the ship round from the disaster that was 2016. He restored a sense of pride again in watching England. Completely re-instated the relationship between the players and the media and brought in exciting young players and, however you want to spin it, we performed better than usual in tournaments.

BUT

he's probably reached his plateau. Personally I believe he needs to be replaced (I'd prefer before the tournament but it won't happen) but not in any sort of angry way. It's very much Chris Hughton for me. "Well done for keeping us up. Thanks for everything you did to get us here, but now we are moving on with the good foundations you have laid."

To even suggest he's done a poor job is madness.

Agree with that and it's in line with Barney Ronay on Football Weekly who summed it up similarly as did Tim Spiers in The Athletic. Southgate, a genuinely decent man and excellent statesman was the best man for the job in 2018 for the collection of players we had then, turning the impression of the national team around and creating an almost club like feel with basic tactics that worked. Now, the players have outgrown him and his tactics.

Whilst neither have really made any catastrophic errors playing for England even when not playing or not playing well for their clubs, his reliance on Maguire and Henderson is costing us tactically. As Ronay captured it perfectly, 5th choice CB for his club Maguire's want to start deeper as he hasn't got the pace to catch attackers means we're not pushing up the pitch a unit and there are gaps in the middle as a result. Henderson (who shouldn't be anywhere near the squad for on and off field reasons anyway) is now a very limited player, playing in a third rate league and it showed on Saturday - poor positioning and safe, unimaginative passing - offering no progression and very limited defensive cover. Playing him meant both Maddison and Bellingham who have started the season superbly were played out of the positions they've been playing so well in this season and they were then hugely handicapped. The fact we ended the game with Rice, Henderson and Gallagher in midfield was depressing and showed up Southgate's limitations. If both Maguire and Henderson are starters in the Euro's then Southgate will have totally wasted this qualification campaign and ultimately we will fail. We'll get out of the group stages and then lose to better opposition in the quarters or semis - same old.

Saturday was the perfect opportunity to try something new in those positions and he just resorted to what he knows and worked reasonably well previously which was England in international football between 2018 and 2021 and not where we are now. This is why we won't succeed in the Euro's unfortunately and I would rather he had gone after the World Cup with a very genuine thank you.

 

[Muzzman]

I think the Albion doing exceptionally well has a lot to do with the apathy towards England. Let's be honest here, most of us would accept England to not qualify for a single tournament as long as it meant Brighton maintained their success in the PL. Brighton doing well really softens the blow of England not doing as well as we would like. Personally, it's all about the Albion. England is a sideshow that I just can't up for anymore.

 

[Eeyore]

Southgate is a terrorist.

My most hated England manager by a country mile and been watching since the 80s.
He has long outstayed his welcome, should have gone after the Euros failure (of course it was a failure, we were playing a major final at home and 1-0 up FFS)

I think you have summarised the problem.

The problem with many England fans.

And why we get laughed at.

A Scotland fan friend of mine was dreading the prospect of England winning the Euros or the World Cup. Not out of jealousy, Scots are only too aware that live in a nation with a tenth of the population that is unlikely to do as well. No, they were dreading it because England fans would become insufferable.

I had to agree. The Leeds United of international football.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

This obviously hasn't happened except for the entire country going Euro bonkers during the quarter, semi and actual final of the Euros, scenes that included the entire capital being taken over by football fans when there were still socialising restrictions on and people being so desperate to be at the game they bunked in. And except for the time the whole country stopped to watch the France game despite it being the middle of winter and the tournament held in a desert full of human rights abusers. Or apart from that time in 2018 when we won our first competitive penalty shootout almost ever and people started wearing actual waistcoats.

Yet, there's two people prepared to give the manager support on here, against dozens and dozens infuriated (or now completely indifferent) with his turgid brand of football and backward selection policy.

In my experience, these proportions are accurately replicated in the offline world as well

 

[The Fits]

Are people still arguing about Southgate? Playing Maguire and Henderson and choosing Phillips over JWP is nonsense. Any argument should end there whatever successes you perceive we've had under him.

 

[Mellotron]

Are people still arguing about Southgate? Playing Maguire and Henderson and choosing Phillips over JWP is nonsense. Any argument should end there whatever successes you perceive we've had under him.

Tbf I think there are very, very few on here arguing that he should continue in the job for that much longer..

 

[Seagull27]

I think you have summarised the problem.

The problem with many England fans.

And why we get laughed at.

A Scotland fan friend of mine was dreading the prospect of England winning the Euros or the World Cup. Not out of jealousy, Scots are only too aware that live in a nation with a tenth of the population that is unlikely to do as well. No, they were dreading it because England fans would become insufferable.

I had to agree. The Leeds United of international football.

Agree. Can you imagine the reaction on here if someone posted how they'd stopped supporting Brighton a few years ago because they didn't like Hyypia, or because the football we played under Hughton was boring. That they'd started supporting Man City against Brighton because City have players in the England squad.

It's the same level of entitlement, just the other way around - we're not winning or playing interesting football, or I don't like the coach, so I'll stop supporting them. But if they reach a final, I'll probably get behind them again.

 

[Mellotron]

Agree. Can you imagine the reaction on here if someone posted how they'd stopped supporting Brighton a few years ago because they didn't like Hyypia, or because the football we played under Hughton was boring. That they'd started supporting Man City against Brighton because City have players in the England squad.

It's the same level of entitlement, just the other way around - we're not winning or playing interesting football, or I don't like the coach, so I'll stop supporting them. But if they reach a final, I'll probably get behind them again.

I honestly don't get it. You see eminently reasonable club fans become massively entitled twats when supporting the national side (sometimes..)

 

[Krafty]

Agree. Can you imagine the reaction on here if someone posted how they'd stopped supporting Brighton a few years ago because they didn't like Hyypia, or because the football we played under Hughton was boring. That they'd started supporting Man City against Brighton because City have players in the England squad.

It's the same level of entitlement, just the other way around - we're not winning or playing interesting football, or I don't like the coach, so I'll stop supporting them. But if they reach a final, I'll probably get behind them again.

There are probably a few individuals who have started to supported the opposing team, and wish for Southgate's downfall, which I find ridiculous.

But, I think that the reason why the majority of fans aren't watching England is because these friendly/qualifying games are just incredibly boring.

 

[worthingweird]

There are probably a few individuals who have started to supported the opposing team, and wish for Southgate's downfall, which I find ridiculous.

But, I think that the reason why the majority of fans aren't watching England is because these friendly/qualifying games are just incredibly boring.

The quicker we get knocked out of a tournament the better...

 

[Guinness Boy]

Agree with that and it's in line with Barney Ronay on Football Weekly who summed it up similarly as did Tim Spiers in The Athletic. Southgate, a genuinely decent man and excellent statesman was the best man for the job in 2018 for the collection of players we had then, turning the impression of the national team around and creating an almost club like feel with basic tactics that worked. Now, the players have outgrown him and his tactics.

Whilst neither have really made any catastrophic errors playing for England even when not playing or not playing well for their clubs, his reliance on Maguire and Henderson is costing us tactically. As Ronay captured it perfectly, 5th choice CB for his club Maguire's want to start deeper as he hasn't got the pace to catch attackers means we're not pushing up the pitch a unit and there are gaps in the middle as a result. Henderson (who shouldn't be anywhere near the squad for on and off field reasons anyway) is now a very limited player, playing in a third rate league and it showed on Saturday - poor positioning and safe, unimaginative passing - offering no progression and very limited defensive cover. Playing him meant both Maddison and Bellingham who have started the season superbly were played out of the positions they've been playing so well in this season and they were then hugely handicapped. The fact we ended the game with Rice, Henderson and Gallagher in midfield was depressing and showed up Southgate's limitations. If both Maguire and Henderson are starters in the Euro's then Southgate will have totally wasted this qualification campaign and ultimately we will fail. We'll get out of the group stages and then lose to better opposition in the quarters or semis - same old.

Saturday was the perfect opportunity to try something new in those positions and he just resorted to what he knows and worked reasonably well previously which was England in international football between 2018 and 2021 and not where we are now. This is why we won't succeed in the Euro's unfortunately and I would rather he had gone after the World Cup with a very genuine thank you.

I don't disagree with a lot of this, with two glaring exceptions. Firstly, if we sack him today, who comes in? I've said it a few times, I don't see anyone waiting in the wings. You can forget about anyone currently doing well in the Premier League. That leaves someone doing badly - Gary O'Neill or Sean Dyche if you want an Englishman - or someone not involved at all - Potter. Or promoting Lee Carsley.

I don't see any of those options being great. Potter for the reasons I've put on here on a number of posts, GON because he's unproved, ditto Carsley, and Dyche because he's Dyche.

You might get Smeddie if Newcastle bin him off but I suspect he'd be the type to hang around for another Premier League gig. Like Potter he wouldn't exactly be poor.

This is why I said to @Krafty last night that he has to stay until there's a better option. IMO Potter isn't it.

BTW Southgate has the second best win ratio of all England managers since the war. The only higher is Capello who was in charge for exactly half the number of games and was horrible in major tournaments. He also didn't have to do the Nations League.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Agree. Can you imagine the reaction on here if someone posted how they'd stopped supporting Brighton a few years ago because they didn't like Hyypia, or because the football we played under Hughton was boring. That they'd started supporting Man City against Brighton because City have players in the England squad.

It's the same level of entitlement, just the other way around - we're not winning or playing interesting football, or I don't like the coach, so I'll stop supporting them. But if they reach a final, I'll probably get behind them again.

But most England ‘fans’ are only really interested if we do well/reach later stages of a tournament. When people talk about the whole country getting behind Southgate’s team in the Euros it was us glory hunters they are talking about. I’m not going to sit through shite England performances in the way I am prepared to for Brighton. Never have done. I have my club team for that because I support and have a view on way more than just the team. With England that’s all you have. I don’t see it as in any way comparable.