[Football] England squad announcement - Lewis Dunk RECALLED!

[Justice]

Southgate is a terrorist.

My most hated England manager by a country mile and been watching since the 80s.
He has long outstayed his welcome, should have gone after the Euros failure (of course it was a failure, we were playing a major final at home and 1-0 up FFS)

Kane’s touches in the Italians box during the final says all you need to know about Mr Southgate’s negative tactics.

 

[Justice]

Who was the last England manager that didn't have everyone moaning at them at some point?

Sir Bobby was absolutely roasted up until Italia 90 for his tactics/decisions. They all get it in the neck, every single one.

You wouldn't be moaning in the scenario you pick, but millions of others would be - most demand results AND performance. It is a near impossible job.

It worked for us because Potter was allowed time. There is no way on earth he'd get even 20% of that time/patience with the England job. First tournament we'd go out in the 2nd round (battering Brazil on xG but losing 1-0 ) and the media pressure would force him out. I too would be happy with a tactically progressive manager being give 2-3 tournaments to get it right, but I honestly don't think that would ever happen, due to our media and how that filters down to fans. Sadly.

The top England players won’t respect Potter, Southgate had previous success with the under 21’s so many of them trusted him. Getting a PL side to mid table is the highlight of Potters career to date.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Wow. There's some debatable, subjective stuff on this thread, And then there's this,

Firstly Walker is the best of four World Class right backs. One of the quickest players in the world, right back for a team that did the treble last season and scorer of our equaliser on Saturday. He's hardly being picked because he's Southgate's mate.

Secondly all coaches, club or national need to have a working relationship with their players, and with some players it goes much deeper than others. Look at De Zerbi last season greeting Soloman and Mudryk when we came up against them, and them reciprocating. Do you think Adam Lallana would say he had a bad relationship with De Zerbi? It's not going to be with all 30/35 possible picks but key players absolutely need it and Walker is a key player, unless you think he shouldn't be starting?

I’m not saying Walker shouldn’t be playing - he is the best right back we have. My point is that England managers should have more of a professional relationship with their players. Walker’s comment inferred that they are friends away from the squad. That is unhealthy as he may be more likely to play his mates, like Maguire perhaps?

 

[CHAPPERS]

So same formation as I would play and Southgate does and most of the same players. No Dunk. White, who has been playing right back or not at all for Arsenal, hates football and got sent home from a training camp at CB?

That said I'd have Stones and Dunk or Colwill CBs, Chilwell at LB and then we're about the same. Bellingham is wasted that far back but there are no real other options except Henderson who should have been removed from the squad the second he moved to a money driven pub league for beheaders. What we've both done is leave out Trippier, TAA, James, Rashford, Grealish and Sterling. Not easy is it?

And Ward Prowse who has started the season brilliantly with West Ham. 3 games, 3 assists and a goal. Left out of the squad entirely. So much for form players.

 

[Springal]

The top England players won’t respect Potter, Southgate had previous success with the under 21’s so many of them trusted him. Getting a PL side to mid table is the highlight of Potters career to date.

Which of the current squad did Southgate have in the U21s in his last tournament in 2015?

Not many is it

No.

https://www.thefa.com/news/2015/jun/02/final-23-squad-for-euros-confirmed-020615

 

[Guinness Boy]

I’m not saying Walker shouldn’t be playing - he is the best right back we have. My point is that England managers should have more of a professional relationship with their players. Walker’s comment inferred that they are friends away from the squad. That is unhealthy as he may be more likely to play his mates, like Maguire perhaps?

It didn't - "good relationship off the field" is what most players who've played for a coach for a long time have with him. I imagine he has a similar relationship with Pep. "Bad relationship off the field" would set massive alarm bells ringing and certainly be a cause to look at Southgate's future.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And Ward Prowse who has started the season brilliantly with West Ham. 3 games, 3 assists and a goal. Left out of the squad entirely. So much for form players.

Good shout that actually.

So if you play JWP with Rice in midfield (and they should have a club understanding of sorts too) that moves Bellingham forward and drops probably Foden or Maddison. It doesn't solve the issues at centre back, left back and GK.

But, fundamentally, great post. Henderson starting, as I said, was an incredible level of f**k up. Shouldn't be in the squad.

 

[Questions]

I’m not defending Southgate as a tactical genius. He isn’t. I’m making a factual point that we were a penalty kick away from a trophy and beaten by a side with far better players in our last two tournaments.

What the Italians ?

 

[marcos3263]

I didn't watch it as knew/expected it to be poor. I might have done if Dunk had played. it certainly isn't the spectacle or occasion it once was. perhaps there is just too much football but realistically its because it is boring.

 

[peterward]

The top England players won’t respect Potter, Southgate had previous success with the under 21’s so many of them trusted him. Getting a PL side to mid table is the highlight of Potters career to date.

Potter will be able to do what Southgate is totally inept at, tactical nous, changing games by adapting systems/personnel in game.

Southgate is a very poor tactician.

What Southgate is good at is the PR side, handling the pressure of the position and national expectation (even more so as he's a rubbish in game tactical manager).

Potter here will struggle imho, he had outbursts here with occasional critisism, he couldn't handle the weight of pressure of the Stamford Bridge hot seat and looked out of his depth in that position.

So whilst I genuinely believe that Potter would be 10x better tactically than Southagte who is poor, I'm not sure Potter could handle the weight of the role publically and potential backlash with a couple of poor results.

Smug may also soon be available!

 

[Springal]

Smug may also soon be available!

See what Newcastle fans think of his substitutions !

 

[Guinness Boy]

Potter will be able to do what Southgate is totally inept at, tactical nous, changing games by adapting systems/personnel in game.

That stuff takes time to learn though. He wouldn't have every day on the field with the same group of players. He'd have a few days every break with a group that were fit at the time.

At best it would certainly be better than Southgate. At worst an absolute omnishambles of players out of position, leggy sideways passing, trying to walk it in and always being beaten by a low block. As we know, that just leads to more of the same and, as you say, tantrums and 'history lessons'.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

No, I think you've missed the point. In my haste to be aggressive(?!) I've maybe not been clear enough. Southgate has taken huge amounts of abuse for years. Before every game, every tournament he is slagged off as people fall over themselves to call him a wanker, scum and everything else. They also love to say how they don't care about England, want the opposition to win because either there's a Brighton player in the opposing team or just hate the England team.

If you think it's a handful of people that think that way, well, I disagree. Or maybe it is a handful of people but they sure make their opinions known EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. They're who I'm frustrated with.

If people were 'simply expressing the view that they don’t like his team selections nor his style of play' then why the need to insult him? Why the need to belittle his achievements?

OK, fair enough and thanks for taking the time to reply. I suppose I don’t really know people’s motivations for what they say. Personally I haven’t made any comments about Southgate other than to say he seems like a nice bloke. I have sometimes wondered how much his penalty miss in 96 has affected his subsequent managerial career and particularly in relation to taking risk and fear of losing.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yeah, far longer than I imagined! Especially as it's essentially different ways of saying the same thing.


As for laughing at England failing, that's the nub of it isn't it?


You like England failing and so will use any stick you can to beat as much enjoyment out of it. And that @Neville's Breakfast is what I'm talking about.

Fair enough. In my defence I have HA on ignore basis his weird and unpleasant posts on a range of subjects.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Not really, no. I used to love watching Englad - really invested in them. Terrible mood when we dropped out of tournaments. But no more, Southgate is dire, he's stayed in post far too long and has no tactical awareness at all. He fulfilled his new broom job in the first 12 months, he's been the luckiest manager we've ever had in terms of groups and knock out stage draws. He's now become the problem that he solved, same old hackneyed players getting in through the old networks. He needs to go.

There may also be a little bit of my disdain for this England side generated by our success I guess, prior England teams were the chance to follow and support better teams and players. The opposite is largely true now and players like Kane I have extreme disdain for due to their cheating and preferential treatment from refs in matches against us.

The main reason though is 45 years of failure and false hope, culminating in this boring team

I can have a fair bit of sympathy with some of that. There is certainly a debate to be had whether he has outlasted his usefulness.

In the same way that Hughton had gone as far as he could with Brighton and was in danger of major regression if he continued Southgate could be at that point with England. But, just as Hughton having a horrendous last six months doesn't detract form the overall incredible job he did with us I don't think that if Southgate has gone as far as he can it should detract from his England successes.

I disagree concerning the luck and easy group comment. You only have to go as far back as the tournament before he took over to see a piss easy group of Wales, Slovenia and Russia where we only managed one win before getting knocked out to Iceland. Iceland! That for me was the ultimate lowpoint of following England. Southgate has taken us so far from that IMO.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I can have a fair bit of sympathy with some of that. There is certainly a debate to be had whether he has outlasted his usefulness.

In the same way that Hughton had gone as far as he could with Brighton and was in danger of major regression if he continued Southgate could be at that point with England. But, just as Hughton having a horrendous last six months doesn't detract form the overall incredible job he did with us I don't think that if Southgate has gone as far as he can it should detract from his England successes.

I disagree concerning the luck and easy group comment. You only have to go as far back as the tournament before he took over to see a piss easy group of Wales, Slovenia and Russia where we only managed one win before getting knocked out to Iceland. Iceland! That for me was the ultimate lowpoint of following England. Southgate has taken us so far from that IMO.

I see it a bit like this as well.

Southgate has a good tournament record and a very good qualification record. He has led us capably through many difficult situations.

But his own success critieria was that he wanted to inspire national support in this England team. This obviously has not happened. His loyalty to players like Maguire and Henderson just screams all the wrong messages. It screams that it doesn't matter what you do on the field, it's what you did 5 years ago that matter.

 

[Commander]

I really wish people would stop using the line about Southgate saying he would only play form players. He has since clearly changed his mind on this as a strategt and said so many times. People are allowed to change their minds. If you can't adapt and evolve then you won't be successful. I have a lot of issues with Southgate as Manager, but trying to pull him up on something he said years ago and has since explained he no longer believes is completely ridiculous.

 

[Horses Arse]

I can have a fair bit of sympathy with some of that. There is certainly a debate to be had whether he has outlasted his usefulness.

In the same way that Hughton had gone as far as he could with Brighton and was in danger of major regression if he continued Southgate could be at that point with England. But, just as Hughton having a horrendous last six months doesn't detract form the overall incredible job he did with us I don't think that if Southgate has gone as far as he can it should detract from his England successes.

I disagree concerning the luck and easy group comment. You only have to go as far back as the tournament before he took over to see a piss easy group of Wales, Slovenia and Russia where we only managed one win before getting knocked out to Iceland. Iceland! That for me was the ultimate lowpoint of following England. Southgate has taken us so far from that IMO.

Yes, Iceland under Roy was a particularly low point. I agree re Hughton similarities, I just wasn't so aware of what could have been achieved with that side at the time and was upset he left. Potter showed what could be acheived with that group, over time. He could do the same with England - if he'd stayed with us that would have been the fear right now. Thank goodness is was so ready to jump at the wad of cash waved his way!

 

[Guinness Boy]

I see it a bit like this as well.

Southgate has a good tournament record and a very good qualification record. He has led us capably through many difficult situations.

But his own success critieria was that he wanted to inspire national support in this England team. This obviously has not happened. His loyalty to players like Maguire and Henderson just screams all the wrong messages. It screams that it doesn't matter what you do on the field, it's what you did 5 years ago that matter.

This obviously hasn't happened except for the entire country going Euro bonkers during the quarter, semi and actual final of the Euros, scenes that included the entire capital being taken over by football fans when there were still socialising restrictions on and people being so desperate to be at the game they bunked in. And except for the time the whole country stopped to watch the France game despite it being the middle of winter and the tournament held in a desert full of human rights abusers. Or apart from that time in 2018 when we won our first competitive penalty shootout almost ever and people started wearing actual waistcoats.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I really wish people would stop using the line about Southgate saying he would only play form players. He has since clearly changed his mind on this as a strategt and said so many times. People are allowed to change their minds. If you can't adapt and evolve then you won't be successful. I have a lot of issues with Southgate as Manager, but trying to pull him up on something he said years ago and has since explained he no longer believes is completely ridiculous.

Sums him up.