[Football] England squad announcement - Lewis Dunk RECALLED!

[cjd]

Every England manager since Ramsay has failed at every tournament. Name me the one who won't.

At least you're admitting that Southgate has failed. That being the case , why is he still here ?

Impossible to name one who wont fail, as it's an unknown.

 

[Horses Arse]

Yeah, far longer than I imagined! Especially as it's essentially different ways of saying the same thing.


As for laughing at England failing, that's the nub of it isn't it?


You like England failing and so will use any stick you can to beat as much enjoyment out of it. And that @Neville's Breakfast is what I'm talking about.

Not really, no. I used to love watching Englad - really invested in them. Terrible mood when we dropped out of tournaments. But no more, Southgate is dire, he's stayed in post far too long and has no tactical awareness at all. He fulfilled his new broom job in the first 12 months, he's been the luckiest manager we've ever had in terms of groups and knock out stage draws. He's now become the problem that he solved, same old hackneyed players getting in through the old networks. He needs to go.

There may also be a little bit of my disdain for this England side generated by our success I guess, prior England teams were the chance to follow and support better teams and players. The opposite is largely true now and players like Kane I have extreme disdain for due to their cheating and preferential treatment from refs in matches against us.

The main reason though is 45 years of failure and false hope, culminating in this boring team

 

[Guinness Boy]

This is my squad selection:

Pickford
Walker White Stones Shaw
Rice Bellingham
Saka Maddison Foden
Kane​

Something like this, we have a lot of great attacking players so this can be changed.

So same formation as I would play and Southgate does and most of the same players. No Dunk. White, who has been playing right back or not at all for Arsenal, hates football and got sent home from a training camp at CB?

That said I'd have Stones and Dunk or Colwill CBs, Chilwell at LB and then we're about the same. Bellingham is wasted that far back but there are no real other options except Henderson who should have been removed from the squad the second he moved to a money driven pub league for beheaders. What we've both done is leave out Trippier, TAA, James, Rashford, Grealish and Sterling. Not easy is it?

 

[Horses Arse]

It’s quite funny really as you can compare Englands ‘big failures’ with our own last season right ?

Italy = Charlton in the league cup
France = Man Utd in the FA cup

We were very unfortunate in the Man Utd game though

 

[Springal]

We were very unfortunate in the Man Utd game though

Were we ? What was the best save De Gea had to make ?

 

[Horses Arse]

Were we ? What was the best save De Gea had to make ?

The one at 58 minutes and 43 seconds.

 

[fly high]

So basically no one really has any viable candidates who are proven serial winners to replace Southgate?

But he was just an emergency appointment when Big Sam cocked it up. Southgate has never been a proven serial winner.

 

[Mellotron]

I certainly don't feel as strongly as @Guinness Boy (anymore...) and feel we are reaching Late Stage Southgate now (as evidenced by the Henderson pick in particular, I can at least sort of see the argument for Maguire(ish) even if I totally disagree with it) but I agree with GB that so many England fans have a bizarrely high sense of entitlement and lose all perspective when it comes to the National Team.

This has been the best era to be an England fan in my lifetime. Euro96 was the only other brief moment that comes close. I'm sad for those that have forgotten this, or didn't enjoy winning a World Cup knockout game on penalties, or comfortably beating Germany to knock them out - an unthinkable idea previously.

Has it been perfect? Of course not. Southgate is tactically fairly poor. He's excellent at pretty much everything else and I think a lot of the "other stuff" - mentality, group dynamics, pride playing for the shirt, getting further in tournaments, winning on pens, etc - has been desperately needed, and massively undervalued by most fans.

Yes, I think it is time (either soon or after Euro2024) for a change. But I still think he was the right man for the job, at the very least for the first 3-4 years.

Those in here who expect England to win trophies playing exciting football, I GUARANTEE you will be moaning again come the next manager. And the one after. And the one after etc. They will have their favourites that they are loyal to. They will not always play that exciting new player you want them to play. At times they will play in a certain way to get a result, because in knock-out football where each game could be the last, sometimes the result IS more important than the performance. It's not like following a club side.

I have no idea where this entitlement comes from. We are historically about a 6th-8th best side in the World - ie the odd semi final, mostly quarters, etc. Yes this is a good set of players, but it isn't the best (and more importantly, not the most balanced) and we live in a bit of a bubble if we think it is. We won't be favourites at Euro2024, so while I think we will be in the running, it doesn't immediately mean that anything less than the trophy is a failure or a disgrace.

 

[Springal]

But he was just an emergency appointment when Big Sam cocked it up. Southgate has never been a proven serial winner.

And Big Sam was a serial proven winner ? Such a thing doesn’t exist in international football

 

[Mellotron]

We were very unfortunate in the Man Utd game though

No more so than England against France - lots of poor ref decisions against us in that.

Against Man Utd in the cup I never really felt like we were going to score.

 

[fly high]

And Big Sam was a serial proven winner ? Such a thing doesn’t exist in international football

Which was exactly my point.

 

[Shins]

I'm glad Southgate has managed England. He's definitely changed the mindset of the team and the country. Everything feels more positive and the attitude towards the team from the public to the press and other countries is much healthier. (If you ever get a chance to see Dear England at the National Theatre it's a good little insight).

However, it's obvious to see he has a lot of limitation's as a tactical coach and someone who has been with this team so long should be able to play attractive and attacking football. We have world class players in all but 3 positions (gk, lcb & lb - granted cm is a bit light after Rice and Bellingham, and rcb after Stones). I refuse to believe that putting a run of the mill premier league manager, English or not, wouldn't have that team playing far better football. I literally can't stand watching our team play, it's painful.

His time was the World Cup. He should have gone then, either the FA making the change of Southgate realising he's had his chance. The fact it was an instant yes from him was all the doubt they needed to call it.

He should stay in some guise similar to that of Andrew Strauss and the ECB as he clearly has a lot to offer.

 

[Mancgull]

Were we ? What was the best save De Gea had to make ?

The one from Enciso in the second half.

 

[Originunknown]

Southgate is a terrorist.

My most hated England manager by a country mile and been watching since the 80s.
He has long outstayed his welcome, should have gone after the Euros failure (of course it was a failure, we were playing a major final at home and 1-0 up FFS)

 

[Horses Arse]

I certainly don't feel as strongly as @Guinness Boy (anymore...) and feel we are reaching Late Stage Southgate now (as evidenced by the Henderson pick in particular, I can at least sort of see the argument for Maguire(ish) even if I totally disagree with it) but I agree with GB that so many England fans have a bizarrely high sense of entitlement and lose all perspective when it comes to the National Team.

This has been the best era to be an England fan in my lifetime. Euro96 was the only other brief moment that comes close. I'm sad for those that have forgotten this.

Is it perfect? Of course not. Southgate is tactically fairly poor. He's excellent at pretty much everything else and I think a lot of the "other stuff" - mentality, group dynamics, pride playing for the shirt, getting further in tournaments, winning on pens, etc - has been desperately needed, and massively undervalued by most fans.

Yes, I think it is time (either soon or after Euro2024) for a change. But I still think he was the right man for the job, at the very least for the first 3-4 years.

Those in here who expect England to win trophies playing exciting football, I GUARANTEE you will be moaning again come the next manager. And the one after. And the one after etc. They will have their favourites that they are loyal to. They will not always play that exciting new player you want them to play. At times they will play in a certain way to get a result, because in knock-out football where each game could be the last, sometimes the result IS more important than the performance. It's not like following a club side.

I have no idea where this entitlement comes from. We are historically about a 6th-8th best side in the World - ie the odd semi final, mostly quarters, etc. Yes this is a good set of players, but it isn't the best (and more importantly, not the most balanced) and we live in a bit of a bubble if we think it is. We won't be favourites at Euro2024, so while I think we will be in the running, it doesn't immediately mean that anything less than the trophy is a failure or a disgrace.

There's entitlement (and I do understand where you're coming from) and then there's showing little ambition and accepting poor performances. The players available rank very high in world football (top 3 perhaps), the team probably is circa 6-8th. That is the problem. I agree Southgate's tactically poor, I agree he's a decent man in the main - the other stuff such as the group /loyalty is certainly counting against him now and I'd value tactical nous quite high for a football manager.

I want to see the England team playing front foot football, showing ambition, having some swagger. Gareth seems to have decided that the only way to win torunaments is to be dull and carefull - he may be right, it's just that he isn't very good at careful either and picks squads based on who he knows from the U21 set up and who he decides to stick by regardless. He's become the problem that he solved initially. He should have gone with best wishes for the service he provided after the last tournament

 

[Shins]

I certainly don't feel as strongly as @Guinness Boy (anymore...) and feel we are reaching Late Stage Southgate now (as evidenced by the Henderson pick in particular, I can at least sort of see the argument for Maguire(ish) even if I totally disagree with it) but I agree with GB that so many England fans have a bizarrely high sense of entitlement and lose all perspective when it comes to the National Team.

This has been the best era to be an England fan in my lifetime. Euro96 was the only other brief moment that comes close. I'm sad for those that have forgotten this.

Is it perfect? Of course not. Southgate is tactically fairly poor. He's excellent at pretty much everything else and I think a lot of the "other stuff" - mentality, group dynamics, pride playing for the shirt, getting further in tournaments, winning on pens, etc - has been desperately needed, and massively undervalued by most fans.

Yes, I think it is time (either soon or after Euro2024) for a change. But I still think he was the right man for the job, at the very least for the first 3-4 years.

Those in here who expect England to win trophies playing exciting football, I GUARANTEE you will be moaning again come the next manager. And the one after. And the one after etc. They will have their favourites that they are loyal to. They will not always play that exciting new player you want them to play. At times they will play in a certain way to get a result, because in knock-out football where each game could be the last, sometimes the result IS more important than the performance. It's not like following a club side.

I have no idea where this entitlement comes from. We are historically about a 6th-8th best side in the World - ie the odd semi final, mostly quarters, etc. Yes this is a good set of players, but it isn't the best (and more importantly, not the most balanced) and we live in a bit of a bubble if we think it is. We won't be favourites at Euro2024, so while I think we will be in the running, it doesn't immediately mean that anything less than the trophy is a failure or a disgrace.

I agree with you except for the moaning about a new manager. It's got to the point where we were with Hughton I think. We need to try and make that next step, even if that means failure by attempting to be more progressive (luckily for us it worked even though Potter took time).

Maybe I'm a minority, but I'd rather us try and play quality attacking football and lose against good sides instead of a 1-1 draw. I'm disinterested in the national team because it's so boring. If a change was made in this direction I certainly wouldn't be moaning if it the new manager didn't work out. It would be a change in philosophy from the top and we'd try and again with another manager. With the players we have it wouldn't take too much try and to find someone who works.

 

[Mellotron]

I agree with you except for the moaning about a new manager. It's got the point where we were with Hughton I think. We need to try and make that next step, even if that means failure by attempting to be more progressive (luckily for us it worked even though Potter took time).

Maybe I'm a minority, but I'd rather us try and play quality attacking football and lose against good sides instead of a 1-1 draw. I'm disinterested in the national team because it's so boring. If a change was made in this direction I certainly wouldn't be moaning if it the new manager didn't work out. It would be a change in philosophy from the top and we'd try and again with another manager. With the players we have it wouldn't take too much try and to find someone who works.

Who was the last England manager that didn't have everyone moaning at them at some point?

Sir Bobby was absolutely roasted up until Italia 90 for his tactics/decisions. They all get it in the neck, every single one.

You wouldn't be moaning in the scenario you pick, but millions of others would be - most demand results AND performance. It is a near impossible job.

It worked for us because Potter was allowed time. There is no way on earth he'd get even 20% of that time/patience with the England job. First tournament we'd go out in the 2nd round (battering Brazil on xG but losing 1-0 ) and the media pressure would force him out. I too would be happy with a tactically progressive manager being give 2-3 tournaments to get it right, but I honestly don't think that would ever happen, due to our media and how that filters down to fans. Sadly.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You are right, it doesn't. I understand the points that you are making.

Potter was only a suggestion, as he has had experience in the Premier League and succeeded with Brighton, but you have caused me to realise that you cannot replicate that style of football in such a short period of time, and perhaps the simplest instructions are needed.

That has really changed my mind about it, and I have started to acknowledge these ideas, but there is still a problem of squad selection (which we all realise) and, my major issue, the style of football we play (there is no creativity or ambition) which is completely boring, and I simply can't watch it for 90 minutes - however I do realise this is not the case for others, and is more of a personal choice.

That conversation disproves the lie that people only use social media to sound off. I am genuinely touched.

And like you I have no answers to the England conundrum. You would imagine that with the richest and best league in the world for more than 20 years, a decent sized population and, since Wenger changed the English game, hundreds of well balanced, well-nourished fit, focused English players, we should have won something simply by chance by now.

 

[Mellotron]

That conversation disproves the lie that people only use social media to sound off. I am genuinely touched.

And like you I have no answers to the England conundrum. You would imagine that with the richest and best league in the world for more than 20 years, a decent sized population and, since Wenger changed the English game, hundreds of well balanced, well-nourished fit, focused English players, we should have won something simply by chance by now.

We were inches away in the Italy final.

People forget that and rewrite it that Italy seemingly "schooled" us 3-0 with a "masterclass".

 

[Badger Boy]

I know it's not really a popularly held belief, but I really don't rate Declan Rice as highly as everyone else seems to. He's a very steady Eddie and not some world class midfield partroller.