Employment Law help required please.......

[Cheshire Cat]

I have never insisted on anyone taking time off at a particular time (as there has never been a need to do so), but I have refused leave requests in the past from staff for various work-load related reasons. However I think companies can regulate when you can and cannot take leave (although it is always better if individual requests are mutually agreed with the manager and staff in advance), especially where shift work is involved. Speak to HR because in my experience line managers often don't actually know the detailed ins and outs of their company policy. The contract itself probably won't help as it may not go into enough details about your particular issues, which is why you need to confirm the process with HR (that is what they are there for) assuming that HR actually understand the process - which in itself may not be guaranteed.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Yes there is a HR Handbook, I don't have one to hand though.

I don't unless forced, want to press any red button really, it's not my style for one thing and I do enjoy the job, of course if I go back to work next Monday and they start hitting me over the head with things I have supposedly done wrong (god knows what they could be though ) then that's a different story.

I was signed off from my 6 month probationary period towards the end of August and I have now only just now, last week in fact completed 6 months employment with them so I do think my record, as short as it is, is quite well respected, I have never once been late (in fact very early every day most times an hour early!) and never had a day off, also I have stepped in at short notice to cover other peoples short noticed absences from work, and I did ask yesterday if there was any issues and was told 3 times in fact, "not at all" so I really hope when I go in on Monday the big stick is not waiting for me

My real reason for seeking any information was in case I am beaten about he head for whatever reason also of course I am concerned about my pre booked holiday next March, that said if they honour that and pay me holiday pay I wont be bothered by it at all, but as I say my concern is that this weeks forced holiday period is using up that paid time.

Thanks again though all help and advice is honestly appreciated.

Given this, my advice would be to have an informal chat with your boss. Just ask him why he did what he did and tell him that you planned to do the contracted hours in the other days, thus keeping some of your holiday entitlement. Keep it low key and non-confrontational.

If it was cock-up or mistake, he'll most likely apologise and might be able to find a way to get you back the holiday you've taken that you don't want to. If, however, it was a deliberate act, you should be able to pick that up by observing his attitude &/or even his words. If you conclude that it was deliberate, then, and only then, consider whether you wish to make an issue out of it. If you do, you should tell him you're not happy (probably at a subsequent meeting - you should give yourself time after the first meeting to consider your options). If he still doesn't respond, tell him you'll go to HR.

Separately, you should clarify your holiday plans for next March verbally with him, and drop him an email/follow the company procedure for booking holiday confirming those plans.

Give him the benefit of the doubt first - it might be a mistake. If you conclude he did it deliberately, then you have a decision to make.

Hope that helps...

 

[hitony]

Personally, given you don't want to rock the boat, I'd just suck it up and take some "sick leave" later in the year to make up for it !

Know where your coming from but they don't pay for any sick leave until after 12 months service, also I pride myself on my timekeeping and never being off work apart from a few operations etc.

 

[hitony]

Given this, my advice would be to have an informal chat with your boss. Just ask him why he did what he did and tell him that you planned to do the contracted hours in the other days, thus keeping some of your holiday entitlement. Keep it low key and non-confrontational.

If it was cock-up or mistake, he'll most likely apologise and might be able to find a way to get you back the holiday you've taken that you don't want to. If, however, it was a deliberate act, you should be able to pick that up by observing his attitude &/or even his words. If you conclude that it was deliberate, then, and only then, consider whether you wish to make an issue out of it. If you do, you should tell him you're not happy (probably at a subsequent meeting - you should give yourself time after the first meeting to consider your options). If he still doesn't respond, tell him you'll go to HR.

Separately, you should clarify your holiday plans for next March verbally with him, and drop him an email/follow the company procedure for booking holiday confirming those plans.

Give him the benefit of the doubt first - it might be a mistake. If you conclude he did it deliberately, then you have a decision to make.

Hope that helps...

Yes, yes it does, my in line boss is very young (27) he has only been doing the position he is in now for some 7 / 8 months, I don't think he has anything personally against me but who knows I am speaking to him on the phone on Thursday and will see what comes of that, I will update everyone and all comments and advice have honestly been very much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Ernest]

Are you a member of a trade union ? If not join one then when things like this crop up you will have support and backing. You now work in a 'hire 'em and fire 'em industry so don't fight battles alone

 

[hitony]

Are you a member of a trade union ? If not join one then when things like this crop up you will have support and backing. You now work in a 'hire 'em and fire 'em industry so don't fight battles alone

No I am not, and without wishing to turn this thread into a political pro / anti union type thread (of which I would have absolutely nothing more to contribute to) I would rather eat my own shit on a daily basis than join any union! just my personal opinion like, but thanks for your advice

 

[symyjym]

Yes there is a HR Handbook, I don't have one to hand though.

I don't unless forced, want to press any red button really, it's not my style for one thing and I do enjoy the job, of course if I go back to work next Monday and they start hitting me over the head with things I have supposedly done wrong (god knows what they could be though ) then that's a different story.

I was signed off from my 6 month probationary period towards the end of August and I have now only just now, last week in fact completed 6 months employment with them so I do think my record, as short as it is, is quite well respected, I have never once been late (in fact very early every day most times an hour early!) and never had a day off, also I have stepped in at short notice to cover other peoples short noticed absences from work, and I did ask yesterday if there was any issues and was told 3 times in fact, "not at all" so I really hope when I go in on Monday the big stick is not waiting for me

My real reason for seeking any information was in case I am beaten about he head for whatever reason also of course I am concerned about my pre booked holiday next March, that said if they honour that and pay me holiday pay I wont be bothered by it at all, but as I say my concern is that this weeks forced holiday period is using up that paid time.

Thanks again though all help and advice is honestly appreciated.

Just tell him you are happy to take the time off if it is essential to him, but just remind him of your previous request for time off and why, and find out if he could work something in your favour.

That's the best way round it if you are happy in your job as it is not confrontational, you are just negotiating.

 

[Southstandfaithful]

I had a similar query earlier this year and was advised by a legal advisor at my company that the company has the right to dictate when an employee takes holiday on giving the employee twice the amount of days notice that they are expecting the employee to take as holiday....... so for example if they want you to take 5 days holiday they have to give you 10 days notice in advance. I can probably dust down the reference i was given (although i think you can find it on the GOV.uk website under employment )

 

[hitony]

Just tell him you are happy to take the time off if it is essential to him, but just remind him of your previous request for time off and why, and find out if he could work something in your favour.

That's the best way round it if you are happy in your job as it is not confrontational, you are just negotiating.

This is pretty much what I intend to do on Thursday, when he is back in work, and he is going to ring me to let me know my hours and where I am working next Monday.

As I have said in another post, I really do think he has just made a bit of a cock up, probably one he does not want to openly admit to and as long as its sorted out amicably I will be fine about it. My concern is that it is a massive company and I am really wondering if he can undo / make good his cock up (assuming that's what it is!) and still give me the paid leave in March, but I will remind him of my officially booked leave next march in our phone call on Thursday and see what he has to say.

My reason for starting the thread was to see if anyone knew if there was an actual employment law regarding this situation, I did search the internet prior to posting but could not really find an example of my exact situation.

I suppose at the worst I will have to get him to join NSC and I will just ban him on his first post!!

 

[hitony]

I had a similar query earlier this year and was advised by a legal advisor at my company that the company has the right to dictate when an employee takes holiday on giving the employee twice the amount of days notice that they are expecting the employee to take as holiday....... so for example if they want you to take 5 days holiday they have to give you 10 days notice in advance. I can probably dust down the reference i was given (although i think you can find it on the GOV.uk website under employment )

Clearly in my situation absolutely no notice was given, I am trying to obtain (almost certain I will) a copy of the company HR handbook from a local source, at best I will get it tomorrow but I wont have contact with my boss now until Thursday so that's fine it will give me a chance to look at it.

 

[symyjym]

This is pretty much what I intend to do on Thursday, when he is back in work, and he is going to ring me to let me know my hours and where I am working next Monday.

As I have said in another post, I really do think he has just made a bit of a cock up, probably one he does not want to openly admit to and as long as its sorted out amicably I will be fine about it. My concern is that it is a massive company and I am really wondering if he can undo / make good his cock up (assuming that's what it is!) and still give me the paid leave in March, but I will remind him of my officially booked leave next march in our phone call on Thursday and see what he has to say.

My reason for starting the thread was to see if anyone knew if there was an actual employment law regarding this situation, I did search the internet prior to posting but could not really find an example of my exact situation.

I suppose at the worst I will have to get him to join NSC and I will just ban him on his first post!!

You will have to report back to us on the outcome, good luck

 

[hitony]

You will have to report back to us on the outcome, good luck

I most defiantly will

 

[Southstandfaithful]

Not sure if this is of any use, but this is the section from the 'Working Time Regulations 1998' that was highlighted to me


Dates on which leave is taken

15.—(1) A worker may take leave to which he is entitled under regulation 13(1) on such days as he may elect by giving notice to his employer in accordance with paragraph (3), subject to any requirement imposed on him by his employer under paragraph (2).

(2) A worker’s employer may require the worker—

(a)to take leave to which the worker is entitled under regulation 13(1); or

(b)not to take such leave,

on particular days, by giving notice to the worker in accordance with paragraph (3).

(3) A notice under paragraph (1) or (2)—

(a)may relate to all or part of the leave to which a worker is entitled in a leave year;

(b)shall specify the days on which leave is or (as the case may be) is not to be taken and, where the leave on a particular day is to be in respect of only part of the day, its duration; and

(c)shall be given to the employer or, as the case may be, the worker before the relevant date.

(4) The relevant date, for the purposes of paragraph (3), is the date—

(a)in the case of a notice under paragraph (1) or (2)(a), twice as many days in advance of the earliest day specified in the notice as the number of days or part-days to which the notice relates, and

(b)in the case of a notice under paragraph (2)(b), as many days in advance of the earliest day so specified as the number of days or part-days to which the notice relates.

(5) Any right or obligation under paragraphs (1) to (4) may be varied or excluded by a relevant agreement.

(6) This regulation does not apply to a worker to whom Schedule 2 applies (workers employed in agriculture) except where, in the case of a worker partly employed in agriculture, a relevant agreement so provides.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Not sure if this is of any use, but this is the section from the 'Working Time Regulations 1998' that was highlighted to me


Dates on which leave is taken

15.—(1) A worker may take leave to which he is entitled under regulation 13(1) on such days as he may elect by giving notice to his employer in accordance with paragraph (3), subject to any requirement imposed on him by his employer under paragraph (2).

(2) A worker’s employer may require the worker—

(a)to take leave to which the worker is entitled under regulation 13(1); or

(b)not to take such leave,

on particular days, by giving notice to the worker in accordance with paragraph (3).

(3) A notice under paragraph (1) or (2)—

(a)may relate to all or part of the leave to which a worker is entitled in a leave year;

(b)shall specify the days on which leave is or (as the case may be) is not to be taken and, where the leave on a particular day is to be in respect of only part of the day, its duration; and

(c)shall be given to the employer or, as the case may be, the worker before the relevant date.

(4) The relevant date, for the purposes of paragraph (3), is the date—

(a)in the case of a notice under paragraph (1) or (2)(a), twice as many days in advance of the earliest day specified in the notice as the number of days or part-days to which the notice relates, and

(b)in the case of a notice under paragraph (2)(b), as many days in advance of the earliest day so specified as the number of days or part-days to which the notice relates.

(5) Any right or obligation under paragraphs (1) to (4) may be varied or excluded by a relevant agreement.

(6) This regulation does not apply to a worker to whom Schedule 2 applies (workers employed in agriculture) except where, in the case of a worker partly employed in agriculture, a relevant agreement so provides.

Sir Humphrey couldn't have put it better.

 

[hitony]

Sir Humphrey couldn't have put it better.

Don't suppose you have Sir Humphreys phone number

 

[hitony]

Not sure if this is of any use, but this is the section from the 'Working Time Regulations 1998' that was highlighted to me


Dates on which leave is taken

15.—(1) A worker may take leave to which he is entitled under regulation 13(1) on such days as he may elect by giving notice to his employer in accordance with paragraph (3), subject to any requirement imposed on him by his employer under paragraph (2).

(2) A worker’s employer may require the worker—

(a)to take leave to which the worker is entitled under regulation 13(1); or

(b)not to take such leave,

on particular days, by giving notice to the worker in accordance with paragraph (3).

(3) A notice under paragraph (1) or (2)—

(a)may relate to all or part of the leave to which a worker is entitled in a leave year;

(b)shall specify the days on which leave is or (as the case may be) is not to be taken and, where the leave on a particular day is to be in respect of only part of the day, its duration; and

(c)shall be given to the employer or, as the case may be, the worker before the relevant date.

(4) The relevant date, for the purposes of paragraph (3), is the date—

(a)in the case of a notice under paragraph (1) or (2)(a), twice as many days in advance of the earliest day specified in the notice as the number of days or part-days to which the notice relates, and

(b)in the case of a notice under paragraph (2)(b), as many days in advance of the earliest day so specified as the number of days or part-days to which the notice relates.

(5) Any right or obligation under paragraphs (1) to (4) may be varied or excluded by a relevant agreement.

(6) This regulation does not apply to a worker to whom Schedule 2 applies (workers employed in agriculture) except where, in the case of a worker partly employed in agriculture, a relevant agreement so provides.

Thanks but I sort of got lost around 15 - 1 I sort of have the feeling that if I understood that in it's entirety I very much doubt there would have been a need for me to start a thread on the matter

Apologies if I appear ungrateful, I'm not, but that sort of stuff is solicitor level to me, I guess I a at level!

 

[Goldstone1976]

Thanks but I sort of got lost around 15 - 1 I sort of have the feeling that if I understood that in it's entirety I very much doubt there would have been a need for me to start a thread on the matter

Apologies if I appear ungrateful, I'm not, but that sort of stuff is solicitor level to me, I guess I a at level!

Be careful. many employment contracts explicitly exclude the working time directive. If yours does, it has to say so. You don't need to check it before an informal, non-confrontational chat. If however you subsequently decide to proceed with a formal complaint, have a read through your contract.....