Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
To say that the Tories inherited a good growth rate and then trashed it is a bit like saying a car was running very sweetly just before it went over a cliff.
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Economy question
- Thread starter bha100
- Start date
To say that the Tories inherited a good growth rate and then trashed it is a bit like saying a car was running very sweetly just before it went over a cliff.
Lincoln Imp
Well-known member
- Feb 2, 2009
- 5,964
I just don't believe that anyone with half a brain cell can fail to understand the difference between deficit and debt. Deficit is spending too much down the pub every month. Debt is having a mortgage.
And there's nothing wrong with debt as long as you can manage it in bad times as well as good.
And there's nothing wrong with debt as long as you can manage it in bad times as well as good.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
That was sorted out in 2012.
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2012/nov/09/britain-to-stop-aid-india
Chicken Runner61
We stand where we want!
- May 20, 2007
- 4,609
I don't know about it running sweetly but you are right about Osbourne and Cameron's driving
Chicken Runner61
We stand where we want!
- May 20, 2007
- 4,609
What people need to remember is that despite being a crap Prime minister when the world economic crash came Brown actually came up with some sound financial moves that started a turnaround, lowering the base rate and Vat was sound and stopped people losing their homes - we expected them just to put up interest rates to save the banks but absorbing the debt saved a lot pain and heartache because it took a lot of the heat out of the situation and the growth we had before the tories came to power meant we could cope with the debt.
Cameron and Osbourne did nothing good from then they even increased VAT to 20% but they want to take credit for the economic miracle we have now!!!
Cameron and Osbourne did nothing good from then they even increased VAT to 20% but they want to take credit for the economic miracle we have now!!!
crookie
Well-known member
Well that didn't even work did it, they bought French jets
wakeytom
New member
How did Brown have a hand in this? It was done by the MPC which is independent.
I love your blind left wing view held within this thread.
drew
Drew
Keep up at the back!!
drew
Drew
True, but it was his policies that probably prevented a run on the banks which, if it snowballed, would have been devastating.
Butch Willykins
Well-known member
L
**** me. Are you for real?
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
Once the crisis hit he did a good job in making sure we didnt fall over completely. I just wish he was as focused before the crisis rather than bickering with Blair. We cant credit where we are now to him though!
Last edited:
Chicken Runner61
We stand where we want!
- May 20, 2007
- 4,609
I love your blind assumption of how power works.
The MPC makes a independent decision based on what the targets are - specifically in the UK inflation but the BOE state, their full responsibility is to:
The Bank’s monetary policy objective is to deliver price stability – low inflation – and, subject to that, to support the Government’s economic objectives including those for growth and employment.
Economic objectives are set by the Chancellor and government - the MPC will do what they are told to do, they might not let the government alter the rate around election time but they have to follow what the BOE wants to happen generally
Chicken Runner61
We stand where we want!
- May 20, 2007
- 4,609
Yes were you old enough to understand what happened?
Chicken Runner61
We stand where we want!
- May 20, 2007
- 4,609
Where are we now? Genuine question - What specifically have Osbourne and Cameron done in the past 3 years that has made things better? The austerity measures they put in place are only just starting no, They put Vat up but what else
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
Where are we now? Genuine question - What specifically have Osbourne and Cameron done in the past 3 years that has made things better? The austerity measures they put in place are only just starting no, They put Vat up but what else
You say austerity. I would say slowly, very slowly, getting your house in order. Its hardly austerity lol. Look at Greece, Ireland and others. They have faced austerity. We continue to bloat ourselves with expectations and services we cant afford.
Hampster Gull
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 13,462
I see Eds written some pledges in stone. Haha cstrong economic foundation, controls on immigration blah blah blah
I'm not sure the tax system encourages divorce or that any couple looks at the tax system and thinks 'oh, that makes it worth divorcing let's do it'.
I beseech all those of sound mind to try and look at this matter from the other
side of the account sheet from the perspective of the non monetary sovereign
private sector.Households and firms .
History has developed a national and international economy based on the
exchange of monetary tokens.It is how we measure GDP and growth.
let's imagine that governments do not exist or can only spend as much as they tax.
The only way a firm or household to increase its income is for others to increase
their spending.Some households and firms will riun surpluses but that is dependent
on others running deficits.In aggregate the exchange of monetary tokens is a nil sum game.
Of course we can increase the amount of monetary tokens in circulation (the aptly named currency)
by borrowing money ,this can increase growth it is vital for many firms to make investments
for all but the richest households to make expensive purchases like a house or a car.
Just like the misunderstanding with government debt and deficit it is important to understand
the difference between stocks and flows .Private sector borrowing does not create aggregate surpluses.
If we want aggregate private sector surpluses they must come from outside.
Now you may think we do not need aggregate private sector surpluses -savings.
National and international trade and investment creates winners and losers.
This applies to nations as well as households and firms .For some to have surpluses
others must have deficits.
Those who have acquired a faith in the market commend this process.
But remember in every bankruptcy for every € of unpaid debt there is a £ of
loss for the creditors -still a nil sum game.Stocks and flows .How to satisfy the desire
of the private sector for savings ,to increase overall growth by expanding monetary
transactions without undermining its sustainability with increasing burden of private
sector debt .
If only there was an outside source of monetary tokens .If only the whole worlds
private sector could exchange monetary tokens in a context of an aggregate surplus.
Yes the unsuccessful firms would still fail( personally I am not in favour of bailing them out
even if they are banks) but we could have aggregate savings and necessary stocks of debt
in the context of an aggregate surplus.
Remember it is not just surplus households and firms that rely on deficit households and
firms but surplus nations that rely on deficit nations.It is impossible for deficit nations to thrive
economically and by extension surplus nations who rely on other nations deficits without
an outside source of monetary tokens
It scares and bewilders people that governments can create money by instructing their central
banks to tap a keyboard and enter digits into the reserve accounts that banks who operate in
that country are obliged to have.Monetary sovereignty is an alien concept to households.
But for sustainable economic growth for aggregate private sector surpluses it is absolutely necessary.
There is a debate to have to what is the optimum level of private sector surpluses at both a national
and international level.It is bound to vary with the buisness cycle but this cannot take place in the context
of governments must balance the books unless we want austerity as a self fufilling strategy.
History shows that governments tend to run deficits for a very good reason it is so their citizens can
run surpluses .If we are to maintain or even advance our future generations prosperity we have
to advance the political debate to grasp the nature of money (I o u's) in general and modern fiat money
in particular (money by government decree)
Our future generations prosperity depends on them not paying down the stock of government "debt"
but in optimizing their level of private sector surpluses.OF course this is no panacea .Utopia ain't no
place on earth .There is far more to optimizing the development of resources and their distribution
that running a private sector monetary surplus but this is the most sustainable monetary context
for future prosperity.
It's the politics stupid.
side of the account sheet from the perspective of the non monetary sovereign
private sector.Households and firms .
History has developed a national and international economy based on the
exchange of monetary tokens.It is how we measure GDP and growth.
let's imagine that governments do not exist or can only spend as much as they tax.
The only way a firm or household to increase its income is for others to increase
their spending.Some households and firms will riun surpluses but that is dependent
on others running deficits.In aggregate the exchange of monetary tokens is a nil sum game.
Of course we can increase the amount of monetary tokens in circulation (the aptly named currency)
by borrowing money ,this can increase growth it is vital for many firms to make investments
for all but the richest households to make expensive purchases like a house or a car.
Just like the misunderstanding with government debt and deficit it is important to understand
the difference between stocks and flows .Private sector borrowing does not create aggregate surpluses.
If we want aggregate private sector surpluses they must come from outside.
Now you may think we do not need aggregate private sector surpluses -savings.
National and international trade and investment creates winners and losers.
This applies to nations as well as households and firms .For some to have surpluses
others must have deficits.
Those who have acquired a faith in the market commend this process.
But remember in every bankruptcy for every € of unpaid debt there is a £ of
loss for the creditors -still a nil sum game.Stocks and flows .How to satisfy the desire
of the private sector for savings ,to increase overall growth by expanding monetary
transactions without undermining its sustainability with increasing burden of private
sector debt .
If only there was an outside source of monetary tokens .If only the whole worlds
private sector could exchange monetary tokens in a context of an aggregate surplus.
Yes the unsuccessful firms would still fail( personally I am not in favour of bailing them out
even if they are banks) but we could have aggregate savings and necessary stocks of debt
in the context of an aggregate surplus.
Remember it is not just surplus households and firms that rely on deficit households and
firms but surplus nations that rely on deficit nations.It is impossible for deficit nations to thrive
economically and by extension surplus nations who rely on other nations deficits without
an outside source of monetary tokens
It scares and bewilders people that governments can create money by instructing their central
banks to tap a keyboard and enter digits into the reserve accounts that banks who operate in
that country are obliged to have.Monetary sovereignty is an alien concept to households.
But for sustainable economic growth for aggregate private sector surpluses it is absolutely necessary.
There is a debate to have to what is the optimum level of private sector surpluses at both a national
and international level.It is bound to vary with the buisness cycle but this cannot take place in the context
of governments must balance the books unless we want austerity as a self fufilling strategy.
History shows that governments tend to run deficits for a very good reason it is so their citizens can
run surpluses .If we are to maintain or even advance our future generations prosperity we have
to advance the political debate to grasp the nature of money (I o u's) in general and modern fiat money
in particular (money by government decree)
Our future generations prosperity depends on them not paying down the stock of government "debt"
but in optimizing their level of private sector surpluses.OF course this is no panacea .Utopia ain't no
place on earth .There is far more to optimizing the development of resources and their distribution
that running a private sector monetary surplus but this is the most sustainable monetary context
for future prosperity.
It's the politics stupid.
What figures have you got for that, and have you got a link?